April 18th, 2019

Examine the evidence and vote for gov’t that will work best


By Letter to the Editor on April 12, 2019.

To all who are eligible to vote:

When considering your provincial election vote, try to resolve the choice by not examining your political predispositions and arguing for whatever agrees with them, but by examining the evidence, counting the number of favourable cases and comparing it with the number of those that are not.

You don’t need to be a mathematical wizard. Just apply what you have learned as a toddler – count! This is a powerful tool, so use it to find the provincial government representation that will work best for you and yours in the future.

J.E. “Woody” Neely

Lethbridge

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30 Responses to “Examine the evidence and vote for gov’t that will work best”

  1. johnny57 says:

    All we need to do Woody is count the number of NDP provincial jurisdictions in the past that have driven their economies into the ground by their over regulating and twisted ideology. That “count” has more than made up my mind a long time ago who was getting my vote! And you can COUNT on that!

    • sikorsky says:

      No t needed to be math wiz to know communism like socialism, no different one feeds on other. Good idea like ban loud motorcycle, but don’t work, still have forever loud motorcycle – can’t fix. Caution the creap of Socilaism, owns you. Read Mcrae story below -he tells you.

  2. Southern Albertan says:

    Perhaps, this could generate some evidence if one has an open mind, and sets aside ideology. It comes from the ‘Canadian Press’ but is featured today at:
    http://www.lethbridgenewsnow.com

    “Political myths fog crucial Alberta election debate over carbon taxes: economist”

  3. Southern Albertan says:

    Here is more food for thought with remember when?
    “Alberta then and now: What’s changed since the last time we headed to the polls? It already feels like forever ago, but the last time Albertans headed to the polls the Progressive Conservatives were planning tax hikes, projecting a massive deficit and raising the alarm over ‘volatile energy royalties.’
    Remember when Jim Prentice said Albertans needed to look at themselves in the mirror?
    Good reading at:
    http://www.thenarwhal.ca

  4. Dennis Bremner says:

    Tris Pargeter a confirmed NDPer posted and wanted to know who were the UCP, here is a repost
    Full context located here:
    https://lethbridgeherald.com/commentary/letters-to-the-editor/2019/04/06/is-notley-really-working-for-albertans/#comment-173040

    My Answer:

    Who “they are” Tris are people that can see beyond lipservice lightbulbs and solar farms that do not work as well as watching Windmills die there own death.
    Who “they are”, are people who realize that 1.6% (GHG/CO2) does not allow Mckenna to create an emergency that does not exist, without questioning the idiocy.
    Who “they are”, are people who look at Mannings SCS and think WHAT nutbar thought it was a great idea to attract all the addicts to downtown ANYWHERE!
    Who “they are”, are people that realize that “Lightbulb SCS loving Phillips” and “Absent from the SCS debate Fitzpatrick”, really achieved ZERO and made Albertan’s feel ashamed of their less than .08% GHG contribution to society while ignoring the fact that CANADA and Quebec suck the Alberta teat for all its worth, then crap on us at will!!
    Who “they are”, are not a party that ignored the demise of two pipelines because they were huggers then became two faced and decided “save a pipeline, might get me elected” and we hope Albertans forget?
    Who “they are”, are people who won’t get in bed with boy child in Ottawa who is more concerned for his personal reputation in the same Quebec that sucks the $13billion Alberta teat and proclaims there is no acceptability to help Alberta get a pipeline to New Brunswick!
    Who “they are”, are not the ones that remained silent while sucking up to Mr. Dressup who will even give the appearance of wanting to change the rule of law, to achieve Quebec dominance, even if criminal!
    Who “they are”, are a party against the carbon tax because they know it will drive up the cost of living in Canada as it already has, and achieve NOTHING, because no matter what is said by Climate Barbie 1.6% is not killing the planet the other 98.4% is!! I have news for Mckenna, Canada is not warming faster then other countries because of our 1.6% and someone should inform that wondrous brain of her’s, but she won’t be there long, so no matter!
    A quote from your post and you actually believe this or you would not have posted it!!!! I quote ” Look at that conservative group of premiers on the day we hear about how climate change effects will be doubled here! A bunch of fools.” ENQUOTE The fools are the ones who believe our <1.6% is creating Canada's climate issue, so whom is the fool?
    Who "they are" is a party that knows that we are paying the same price (or higher) for gasoline as when the barrel was selling for $150 when its $60 and, why the Oil companies have endorsed the carbon tax! If you haven't figured out how a SUPPOSED over abundance of oil creates the highest prices in North America! It’s not my fault the NDP are clueless and believe the Carbon Tax is not the opportunity of a lifetime for big Oil and Goldman Sachs! Ever wonder why the highest pump price is BC? Coincidence, perhaps? but then again, if you believe in coincidences then you'd have to also believe 600+ addicts would have come to Lethbridge and downtown was always destined to become a ghetto, even without Mannings SCS! ( within 5 years, bookmark this comment – been there, done this, got at least 10 T-shirts)

    So for Lethbridge West
    – a vote for Phillips means you believe she should not have opposed SCS in our downtown , a vote for her suggests you approve of the now 850 + visible addicts (600 of which came from other communities and that number grows monthly) wrecking havoc in our “once upon a time” safe downtown!

    Lethbridge East voters

    -a vote for Fitzpatrick means you believe Fitzpatrick should not have opposed SCS in our downtown , or protected the London Road Community, a vote for her suggests you approve of the now 850 + visible addicts (600 of which came from other communities and that number grows monthly) wrecking havoc in our “once upon a time” safe downtown!
    Who "the UCP aren't", ……THE NDP ………and I thank them for that!

  5. biff says:

    what j57 overlooks, as do the lot of the other backward folk that feel the cons are always the only party to support: every party runs the economy into the ground. they each leave us working stiffs the poorer, year over year, term over term. yes, look at the numbers. debt at every prov’l level increases year over year, term over term…and it does not matter what the name of the friggin loser party is. debt at the federal increases year over year, term over term. the federal debt even ballooned under the “great money manager (not)” harper during his 10 years of dictatorship. how does one not wish to acknowledge that very gov’t exists to keep the masses limp, so it it easy to legitimise the theft of our money. they each make grand promises during election campaigns they do not keep; and they each plough through bills that were never discussed during election campaigns, thus, they institute significant legislation for which they were never given a mandate.
    only idiot fools will bicker over which is the better choice of sleazy thieves to oversee the theft of our money; and only idiot fools will buy into this fake de-mock-cracy; and only idiot fools will see their vote as anything more useful than legitimising the entire charade.
    let us consider this, too: how often through history has the person/group that signed off with an “x” come out ahead?
    you want to vote for “change”? destroy your ballot, and cast a loud vote for democracy.

  6. Dennis Bremner says:

    so basically biff, assuming you believe what you just stated, then throwing the bums out after one term at least prevents pensioning the bums

  7. IMO says:

    The reality of the mounting evidence reveals the depth of depravity and accompanying Machiavellian attitude.

    Machiavellianism in psychology refers to a personality trait which sees a person so focused on their own interests they will manipulate, deceive, and exploit others to achieve their goals.

    Beyond deplorable!

    https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/former-ucp-mla-fake-emails-point-to-kenney-voter-fraud-1.4374894?fbclid=IwAR2zUkmPN6YctRnr-ejAty44Bg4XjkrFYVgq7P3_KXc5O02yXfU-8uhC5yc

  8. Pecker says:

    Johnny and Dennis are the guys who would vote for a bail of hay if it was on the ballot.

  9. biff says:

    d.b – haha! a good thought 🙂 too bad law would not limit each to one term, and no pension…gold plated at that. perhaps we would all be better served by a pm or a leader for a day, rather than the slew of bums we get.anyway, the evidence is plenty and the history is long that should make it clear destroying one’s ballot is the best one can do at this juncture.

  10. ReallyReally says:

    jonny57 your are wrong, you once again demonstrate your failure to be adequately informed before you comment on subjects on these forums.

    The NDP governments have been by far the most fiscally responsible in Canada. That is not to say there have not been some notable exceptions, but overall the results and records prove your claim is highly exaggerated, indeed ill-informed.

    The NDP government records are better than both the Conservatives and the Liberals, as well as both Social Credit and PQ governments.

    Toby Sanger has compiled evidence for many years from Finance Canada Fiscal Reference Tables and the Statistics Canada Cansim Tables to repeatedly develop reports that provide evidence to support this record.

    Take the time to acquaint yourself with those official records and/or simply research Sanger’s name online to find articles where he makes the reading rather easy for anyone to understand, complete with charts in some cases. One barely has to lift a finger to stay informed.

    • johnny57 says:

      As far as the economy use to be there my info comes right from the grass-roots themselves..The thousands of people from Saskatchewan that come here-a healthy portion of which i get to talk to in my job. The story is always the same!
      RR maybe YOU need to talk and acquaint yourself with many of these hardworking economic refugees from our neighbour. Instead of relying on fake and very manipulable data from questionable sources. As far as them balancing budgets i would think it would be the exception rather than the rule.

  11. Seth Anthony says:

    RR,

    I had a look at Sanger’s numbers, and find them to be meaningless.

    The report does not include the important factors such as majority or minority government, time frames, the deficient amount when the new party took power, commodity values at the time, and most important, HOW the balance was achieved.

    Sheesh, and I found all those flaws with just a quick glance at the report. The report is a classic example of, “truth by omission”. This type of report is always authored by a person with bias and/or a vested interest in one way or another.

    • ReallyReally says:

      Seth I suggested Sanger’s reports as they were neatly condensed and do provide graphs for rapid recognition of relevant key parameter’s. As Tris contends few people are willing to go any further than “anecdotal” references for comments on these forums, which is exactly why I offered my original submission: Data, facts, are collected and with little effort in this modern world of information can be consulted for far more accurate information to base ones decision.

      jonny57’s comment that statistics collected by the government of Canada year upon year in an non-partisan manner are “fake” speaks to his intellectual abilities and I realize that my attempt to communicate, to offer any “education” was wasted no matter what evidence was offered.

      If one does wish to study the details you suggest be considered, then these items can be sourced through the government databases and statistics that even Sanger includes as references/sources for his findings. However I recognize that very, very few people are willing to take that effort.

      If “anecdotal evidence” is the standard for voting decisions, then it is hypocritical to whine about unemployment in Alberta when there are many among us who will tell you that their place of employment rarely staffs a full shift due to a lack of people applying for positions. Local UCP candidate Karri Flatla was filmed recording a complaint about the unemployment situation whilst standing in front of a large banner in the background loudly stating: “Now Hiring”. Based on that visually anecdotal evidence I can conclude that Karri Flatla is quite the obtuse individual, a poor candidate for managing the governance of our province, and it makes it easy for me dismiss her from consideration for my vote.

      Based on anecdotal evidence, it is not jobs that are lacking in Alberta, it is a lack of “work ethic” that is unfortunately absent.

  12. George McCrea says:

    I stated that the NDP election would adversely impact our of living and each of our lives. Now that Notley and the NDP are campaigning for re-election, after 4 years in power, prudent voters need to examine the NDP record before marking their ballots on election day. I will not try to unduly influence your vote, but it is my hope that you will review and understand the facts set out below and make an informed decision in the best interests of your family, city and province on election day.

    Personal Wealth 
    Over the last 4 years Alberta’s net financial assets have decreased by $47 Billion. During that period the equity in Alberta housing has decreased by an estimated $27 Billion. Based on a population of 4.3 million, that means that every man woman and child is on average $15,000 poorer today than in 2015 – $60,000 for a family of four.

    Jobs 
    In 2014, 431,000 individuals were employed in the resource sector while 467,000 were employed in education, healthcare and public administration. (all numbers from Statistics Canada). In late 2018, 401,000 individuals were employed in the resource sector while 551,000 were employed in education, healthcare and public administration. During that period the public sector added 84,000 jobs (18%) while that portion of the private sector shrank by 7%. The government’s share of total employment is now 23.2% – the highest in decades.

    Taxes 
    Corporate and personal income taxes (provincial & federal) have increased dramatically and we now also have a carbon tax which was not mentioned in the NDP’s 2015 campaign.
    Cost of Government 
    Even after 4 very tough years, the cost per capita ($12,717) of delivering Alberta’s government services, continues to be 14% higher than the average cost for the 4 largest provinces. No attempt has been made to reduce those costs or otherwise balance them with the vastly reduced revenues experienced during the downturn.

    Debt 
    When the NDP took over in 2015, Alberta had no provincial debt. The debt is forecast to be $71 Billion next year and is projected to grow to over $100 Billion in the next 4 years, IF the NDP are re-elected.
    What About all of the Other Social and Non-Financial Issues? 
    Healthcare wait times? Average class sizes? New schools & hospitals? Environmental stewardship? Human rights? Personal freedoms? Commitment to the arts? The rights & freedoms of the LGBTQ and other defined groups? Other social issues?
    If the economy is not strong, the budget not balanced and the debt not brought under control, the province will not be able to afford to adequately deal with those issues. Our standard of living, which has already materially eroded under the NDP, will continue to deteriorate. Societies that put their financial house in order first have the flexibility to address the other needs and wants of the citizens. The extreme example of a country that followed the spend/borrow/tax/repeat path can be seen in the disaster that is Venezuela today.
    Who will have to pay back the debt? 
    My generation will not be around to service the interest and repay the massive debt that your government has incurred. That burden will fall to my children and their cohort and to the children of that group. Interest on the debt, together with repayment of principal, will become an increasingly more painful annual cost which government can only fund with increased taxes – a vicious downward spiral.

    Living Within One’s Means 
    I am very proud of the fact that each and every one of you understands how to budget responsibly and that you are committed to living within your personal means. The Alberta government forecast says they will run another $6.9 Billion deficit this year, which means they will have to borrow those funds at ever increasing rates because the province’s credit rating has been materially impaired. The federal government’s aggregate deficit under the Liberals since 2015 is $60 Billion and the recent budget confirms they are planning to run further deficits totalling an additional $66 Billion over the next 4 years, IF re-elected.
    Question 
    I only have one very important question for each of you:
    Do you think it is time for the Alberta government to exercise the same level of financial discipline and prudence that each of you is required to demonstrate in your personal lives?
    I am hopeful that your answer to that question will guide your decision at the ballot box on April 16th.

     

  13. zulu1 says:

    One part of the evidence that voters should consider is that there are less people employed in private industry today than there were four years ago !! So much for the NDP claim that they are working hard for working Albertans . What a joke, except that it is certainly not funny if you don’t have a job anymore !!

  14. Seth Anthony says:

    Excerpts from a Financial Post article:

    “Rockefeller-supported groups are helping defeat the UCP, the only party in the Alberta election committed to breaking the U.S. monopoly on Alberta’s overseas oil exports”

    “Notley had a choice. She could have taken action against the Rockefeller Brothers Fund. Notley could have defended Alberta and, indeed, all of Canada. She didn’t.

    Notley has rarely if ever mentioned the Rockefeller name in public even though it is their money, their campaign, that has sabotaged the backbone industry of Alberta’s economy.”

    https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/vivian-krause-rachel-notley-the-rockefellers-and-albertas-landlocked-oil#comments-area

    Then there’s also:

    “Alberta’s NDP government has done it again — it has appointed an enemy of Alberta’s oil and gas industry to oversee it, regulate it and advise on it.”

    https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/corbella-ndp-government-appoints-an-enemy-to-the-alberta-energy-regulator

    • annie57 says:

      “Excerpts from a Financial Post article:”

      April 10, 2019 – “Diversify or die: Why the next Alberta premier must look beyond oil”

      https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/diversify-or-die-why-the-next-alberta-premier-must-look-beyond-oil

      “Then there’s also:

      ‘Alberta’s NDP government has done it again — it has appointed an enemy of Alberta’s oil and gas industry to oversee it, regulate it and advise on it.'”

      Well that’s exciting. Will he get to milk it too?

      November 9, 2018 – “Alberta Energy Regulator spent more than $14,000 flying boss to weekly meetings

      Airfare tops $14,000 for transporting CEO from B.C. home to Alberta offices

      The chief executive of Alberta’s oil and gas regulator no longer lives in the province and the organization is spending thousands of dollars to cover frequent flights from his home in B.C. to meetings in Calgary and Edmonton.

      … According to the regulator’s financial statements for the year ended March 31, 2018, Ellis is paid a base salary of $525,000. Total compensation is stated as $728,000, including cash and non-cash benefits.”

      https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/aer-executive-pay-1.4895772

      December 3, 2018 – “A second executive with the Alberta Energy Regulator is billing the organization for travel expenses because the person is living in B.C.

      The AER tells CBC News its board of directors wasn’t aware of the situation. The AER is the single regulator of energy development in Alberta — from application and exploration, to construction and operation, to decommissioning, closure and reclamation.

      Since May, Jennifer Steber has expensed flights, taxi trips and other costs to go to work at the AER from her residence in B.C. Her expense claims also include mileage on her vehicle driving from her B.C. residence to the Penticton airport in B.C’s Okanagan Valley. Steber is part of the executive team at the AER.

      … According to the regulator, Ellis authorized Steber to file expense claims from her residence in B.C.

      … There is no indication from her expenses about where in B.C. she lives, however a property registry search shows Steber is listed as one of the registered owners of a house in Osoyoos, located 60 kilometres south of Penticton.

      The AER lists Steber’s salary as $373,547 in 2015.

      https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/alberta-energy-regulator-executive-found-billing-for-travel-from-bc-residence/ar-BBQpQFL

      November 2, 2018 – CALGARY — The president and CEO of the Alberta Energy Regulator (AER) will resign from his position, the organization said Friday.

      Jim Ellis will leave the job on Jan. 31, 2019, a decision that has been ‘in the planning stages for the past several months,’ the AER said in a press release. In a statement, AER chair Sheila O’Brien said Ellis’ ‘leadership and strategic vision’ have been crucial for the regulator, which oversees the development of oil, oilsands, natural gas and coal projects in the province.

      ‘The AER Board wishes Jim all the very best in the future and offers our gratitude for his service and the legacy he leaves at the AER,’ she said.”

      https://globalnews.ca/news/4624865/alberta-energy-regulator-jim-ellis-resignation/

      March 15, 2019 – “Alberta Energy Regulator sues consultancy launched by its former CEO

      The Alberta Energy Regulator is suing a consultancy launched as a side project by its former chief executive, seeking to recover millions of dollars from an entity already under investigation by the provincial Auditor-General and its Public Interest Commissioner.

      The industry-funded watchdog is seeking $2.67-million in the suit, alleging unpaid bills tied to a licensing agreement the AER struck with ICORE Energy Services NFP, according to a statement of claim filed in the Court of Queen’s Bench in Calgary.

      The action is the latest fallout from the sudden resignation of former AER president and CEO Jim Ellis, a one-time military commander who held the job for five years before stepping down late last year amid criticism of the regulator’s oversight of oil-industry liabilities.

      The AER announced his departure on Nov. 2, the same day Public Interest Commissioner Marianne Ryan informed Mr. Ellis that her office had initiated an investigation into allegations of wrongdoing related to the AER, according to a copy of the letter obtained by The Globe and Mail.

      ‘The allegations relate to the use of public funds, public assets and AER human resources to establish and support the operation of the International Centre of Regulatory Excellence (ICORE), a non-profit company established by you,’ Ms. Ryan said in the letter.

      Auditor-General Doug Wylie is also probing the relationship between the AER and ICORE, which was launched by Mr. Ellis in February, 2017, with plans to advise other countries on regulation, starting with Mexico’s newly liberalized energy sector.

      The consultancy struck a licensing agreement with the AER in April, 2017, under which it agreed to reimburse the regulator ‘for the use of the AER’s staff, resources, information, instructors or property related to the delivery of training course to third parties,’ according to the claim.

      The AER has said it severed the relationship last December for undisclosed reasons. According the claim, ICORE did not pay invoices for in-kind services totaling $2,671,241.08.

      The allegations have not been tested in court and ICORE has not filed a statement of defence.

      AER spokeswoman Samantha Peck declined to provide further details Friday. Zeeshan Syed, formerly listed as a principal contact on the nonprofit’s website, did not immediately reply to an e-mail. Mr. Ellis could not be reached.”

      https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-alberta-energy-regulator-sues-consultancy-launched-by-its-former-ceo/

  15. Seth Anthony says:

    RR said:

    —————————————————————
    Seth I suggested Sanger’s reports as they were neatly condensed and do provide graphs for rapid recognition of relevant key parameter’s. As Tris contends few people are willing to go any further than “anecdotal” references for comments on these forums, which is exactly why I offered my original submission: Data, facts, are collected and with little effort in this modern world of information can be consulted for far more accurate information to base ones decision.
    —————————————————————

    EXCEPT, the report ignores said “relevant key parameters”, then has the audacity to claim a conclusion. The rest of your post was a diversion away from my findings.

    Anyway, on this forum, the replies to my queries generally consist of irrational name calling, ludicrous accusations, and irrelevant ramblings. In other words, nothing of substance, and no actual rebuttal. So, you’re a breath of fresh air in that you actually replied in an intelligent manner.

    RE- Anecdotal evidence.

    It’s simplistic to just outright ignore anecdotal evidence. For example, if 10 people took a particular pill, and 9 of them said it made them feel depressed, would you simply dismiss their position as anecdotal and therefore meaningless? I think not. Let’s also keep in mind that “facts” aren’t always infallible. Numbers can be skewed.

    Also, I’m hoping you haven’t forgotten about the following thread:

    https://lethbridgeherald.com/commentary/letters-to-the-editor/2019/04/06/kenney-needs-to-do-the-math/#comment-173039

    In that thread, both you and Tris replied to me, but both of you claimed things toward me that I did not say, or reference.

  16. Seth Anthony says:

    @Annie.

    I didn’t say we shouldn’t diversify. In addition, diversification has NOTHING to do with my point.

    The remainder of your reply consisted of your proverbial haphazard and irrelevant ramblings.

  17. ReallyReally says:

    I am far too busy just now to review all of the arguments and inputs, but my memory is that both Tris and I referenced the Fraser institute… and you claimed that you never quoted them. I, and I believe Tris too, were referring to the fact that a study you provided a link to used the Fraser Institute as a source or the author of that study?

    I realize that Sanger cherry picked his factors to develop his graphs… you pretty much have to do same to produce a graph/chart that is not overly cluttered, or at least beyond the ability of the average consumer to comprehend. That as I suggested was exactly why I recommended Sanger’s work. There are other authors through the years that I have read who drew similar conclusions, but their work was more for the peer reviewed or passionate economic analysis audience… certainly not something that individuals such as jonny57 appear capable of understanding, nor willing to spend time learning to interpret. Just sayin’. I was making the best effort I could, with the time I had at hand, to convey this information without causing folks reading the forum to become quickly jaded with an overkill of references and articles to review.

    Yes, numbers can be, and are skewed routinely. Which is exactly why I pointed out the sources for Sanger’s findings. A Russian proverb translated says: Trust But Verify

    I well know that anecdotal evidence can prove to be not simply more accessible, but even more plausible evidence. I have relied upon it with great success in my various careers. I will argue that anecdotal evidence has stimulated much great scientific study and invention. I have used it with great effect this election cycle to determine for my personal opinion that the UCP party leadership and candidates are bigots, dimwits, shady, untrustworthy, two-faced, fickle to the point of Monty Pythonesque farcical (Jason Kenney will easily score a lead role in a Canadian version remake).

    I wouldn’t elect these fools to my Ministry of Silly Walks. They could not cope with even that task.

  18. Seth Anthony says:

    RR said:
    —————————————————–
    I am far too busy just now to review all of the arguments and inputs, but my memory is that both Tris and I referenced the Fraser institute… and you claimed that you never quoted them. I, and I believe Tris too, were referring to the fact that a study you provided a link to used the Fraser Institute as a source or the author of that study?
    ——————————————————

    No, I didn’t reference anything in regards to education. I did however post a link to a different Letter to the Editor. That letter contained 3 or 4 replies (including mine) in regards to education reform.

  19. ReallyReally says:

    Fair enough explanation Seth… I accept the fact that I failed to differentiate that point reasonably.

    This thought causes me to reflect: I doubt that I could even come close to the remarkable job that Rachel Notley and her crew have managed… seriously few brain farts given the incredible burdens they inherited, the shredded documents they had to glue back together, all of the right wing threats and daily stress they have endured, and the immense amount of data that these people have managed to review and react to in only three + years.

    In comparison, Jason Kenney didn’t even have a well-thought out education policy developed with all of the lead time he has had, nor could he even do the math regarding his explanations of the carbon tax costs of driving his Ram truck about the province… for far more hours than he possibly could have as claimed. Will Callaway step in to pull things off for him again?

  20. ReallyReally says:

    I will try to get to that tomorrow Seth. Just now as I checked for your response called away to handle a more important family request.


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