August 17th, 2019

Supervised consumption site not helping the problem


By Letter to the Editor on June 12, 2019.

The purpose of this letter is to describe the ongoing destruction of Lethbridge due to the SCS, and to show that the terms “SCS” and “SCS saves lives” are misnomers.

The SCS began operating in small downtown Lethbridge approximately 15 months ago. The results have been:

– A massive increase in all crime including assaults on business owners, general residents, and seniors. A recent poll by the Lethbridge Herald showed approximately 86 per cent of Lethbridge residents no longer feel safe going to the downtown area.

– Property value and business revenue plummeting in a large area surrounding the SCS. This area of carnage and crime is continuously growing.

– As stated by the Lethbridge police, many (if not most) of the addicts have come from outside of Lethbridge. This is also no surprise, as the addicts refer to the SCS as the “clubhouse” where they gather with the dealers and are free from consequences.

– Overwhelmed police and EMS services. This is due to the skyrocketing crime, and numerous overdoses of poison each day. Be it noted that “ingesting poison” and “dosage” should not be mutual terms. There is no safe dose of poison, so there should be no such term as a poison “overdose.”

The Safe Injection Site term is a misnomer, as the vast majority of the users get their free needles and leave the site. These addicts are constantly shooting up and/or passed out in our parks and school grounds.

The saving lives term is also a misnomer. What they call saving lives, is actually perpetuating death by poisoning. They help people to inject poison, revive them from inevitable death due to injecting poison, then help them to constantly repeat that process. This process is the exact opposite of compassion.

The site isn’t helping the problem. They are making things worse for both addicts and the general residents of Lethbridge. Their destructive practices need to be immediaetly stopped, and the site should be converted to a detoxification centre.

Seth Anthony

Lethbridge

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81 Responses to “Supervised consumption site not helping the problem”

  1. h2ofield says:

    “Area of carnage and crime” … over-reaction, embellishment and a lack of actual facts.
    Too bad he doesn’t back it up. IMO, the SCS attempts to centralize the activity.( Quite the opposite of what he suggests)
    I consider sugar & salt ‘poison’. I don’t care how much you ingest, but maybe lay off that stuff before you become riddled with health problems. Focus on that epidemic with as much vigor…(ya, right)

    • Seth Anthony says:

      H2o is at the first stage of a psychological disorder. It’s called “Denial of reality”.

      • h2ofield says:

        Insults? Nobody gets an opinion but you?
        No wonder everyone thinks you’re a douche.

        • baxter says:

          Did you really just complain about insults and then end your reply by calling someone a douche?

          I mean it is pretty clear that you are dense but you can’t actually be that dense can you?

          • h2ofield says:

            Baxter – “insults?”…is not a complaint, it’s an observation.
            If someone is going to fire one at you, they’re going to get it back.
            Pretty simple.
            Run along.

    • Dennis Bremner says:

      SCS does “centralize the activity”. What it does is creates the “clubhouse hangout” that addicts so desperately need. Its very difficult to get your next hit if you either do not know where your dealer is, or your dealer does not know where you are. The Clubhouse becomes the new address for the Junkie without an address.

      One can debate the “holiness” of providing assistance to these people for literally “forever” because its been going on now for 25+ years. What places like Vancouver East Side does is try to keep the population focused on the “centralization” and uses that against anyone that suggests otherwise, which is exactly what Borgue is doing.

      So any arguments within the Vancouver community, the head of the SCS system there then says, what would you have us do “turn them loose on the rest of Vancouver”? Now relate that to what Borgue and Manning are doing with Phillips blessing. We started with around 180 Addicts. Borgue and Manning declared it a disaster and we have to save them!!! So Borgue goes out and arranges for SCS Lethbridge. The media now covers the Police Chief justifying the SCS by statements like “you can’t put 300 in jail” which combined with Councils/Mayor lack of Interjection at the onset, allows Borgue/Manning to set up their Moral Superiority and employment for years to come.

      Suddenly we have an SCS site and shortly after (within 6-8months) we have a number bordering on a 1000 drug addicts in Lethbridge. Now one can say, that “our drug addicts” decided to come out of the woodwork and they were always “ours”. That would seem to fly in the face of Borgues own count of 180 prior to her planning on killing the Lethbridge downtown and in the end, the City.

      So between 3 people and our City Council, some one decided to play along with Borgue and Manning. Even though they knew what this leads too. Too try to avert blame, the Mayor and Council all vote to pass the buck, which is “we need citizen input”!

      Why is that passing the buck? Well what they did was count on the lack of knowledge in Lethbridge on the subject. So they pretty well knew that those that showed up would be curious as to the process, and would listen to the “Experts” that Borgue/Manning and Phillips shipped in.

      Of course who the experts are, are the very same people that contributed to the demise of their own communities/cities, like Borgue and Manning are doing to ours. But like others they insist that’s all water under the bridge now, and the platitudes start, “the problem is too big now”, ” the numbers are out of control” etc etc. No one says, well, there was a time where the problem was not too big, so whom made the problem TOO BIG?

      The answer lies with the goody two shoes who could not bear to see people die of their own stupidity. For everyone wanting to off themselves their is at least one “religious nutbar” out there that feels compelled to save them, period.

      So you get the “need to save”, flocking to the “needed to be saved ” so they all can reach their needed Moral high of “saving lives”! They don’t do it with their resources, they do it with “your resources”. You soon find out that the day you need an ambulance that it does not arrive on time because they are saving the same junkie for the 5th time that day.

      So what sends you into this never ending overdose/save routine? If an addicts overdoses and does so where he/she dies then there is no “save” involved. There is no ambulance tie up, and there is no drain on resources, the person is dead. Well its Borgue and Manning of course.

      So, they (Borgue/Manning) start off by “were going to provide clean needles”, then its a safe place to shoot up (SCS) then its a “Saviour group”, and suddenly the loop of never ending Moral High and employment occurs.

      Junkie A shoots up, Junkie A OD’s, Goody Two Shoes A, rescues Junkie A. Junkie A is saved. Junkie A shoots up again, Junkie A OD’s again, Goody Two Shoes A rescues Junkie A again, Junkie A is saved, again.

      Now if we can get 1000 junkies to frequent our facility, then Junkie A thru E require at least one more Goody Two Shoes to reach a “Moral Lives Saved” So the more Junkies attracted to Lethbridge, the more the Employment of the “Morally Superior” in Lethbridge.

      So if local rumour is true that SCS now employs about 130 people then the ratio of Saviour to OD’er is about 7:1
      So by next summer when we hit 1500 the SCS should be employing about 200 “Saviours”.

      Borgue and Manning will go to city hall stating the problem is getting bigger (as if they are surprised) , for the same reason that Vancouver East side got bigger, every year like Vancouver, Lethbridge will have Junkies brought in and dumped onto our streets.
      Borgue will need more ambulances, more emergency staff, more “saviours” and more “taxpayer money”, every year. Council will have no recourse, she invites them in, WE PAY FOR THEM…

      Now, the cycle is complete. Borgue and Manning have now put Lethbridge in the same position as the early Do gooders did in Vancouver and they get to reiterate the statement above using Lethbridge in this sentence;

      So any arguments within the Lethbridge (Vancouver)community, the head of the SCS system there then says, what would you have us do “turn them loose on the rest of Lethbridge (Vancouver)”? Borgue and Manning and others now become the NEW EXPERTS for the next community to be sucked into their need too do good no matter what it does to a community.

      In the meantime Lethbridge SCS visits will grow, we will “per capita” be the largest drug addict hang out in Canada as we are now, and soon, if not already there, “the world”.

      Soon, people like the Mayor and Council who thought they were being extremely clever by shifting the discussion to people who did not know a thing about drug addicts, will soon find that “numbers of drug addicts saved will be offset by numbers of innocent residents murdered”. Remember that sentence please.
      Then the discussion becomes ” personal worth”. Is saving X addicts from imminent death worth more than3 lives of innocent Lethbridge people? I can’t wait for people to get into THAT discussion!

      You see what comes next is, “territory and dealer” wars. Then drive by’s, then drug addicts needing a quick buck that begin to become more brazen and start attacking residents.

      Now, Council of course will say “well we took it to the public”! Thats true, but before they did, they knew exactly what they were doing, they were shifting the liability so they could reduce
      their responsibility because,….. they were just doing what you had suggested after lengthy consultations.

      But, Council knew exactly what they had to do before shifting this hot potato. They knew it would create a devastating effect on the City. They knew that Lethbridge was in a rather non enviable position in that the two reserves which are having more than their fair share of these problems would not object if the addict ended up in Lethbridge. They knew that the surrounding communities with no SCS would likely turn up the confrontations between Addict and Police with the possibility of advice being given that “the police in Lethbridge don’t harass addicts, may be you should go there?”

      So Council knew all of this before ever going to “Public Meetings” but was it ever put on the table as this is what WOULD HAPPEN? No, Borgue and Manning were allowed to bring their “Experts” in and no one really could object without sounding like a heartless killer. So Lethbridge, was setup and the surprising thing is, you still don’t get it.

      Did Council “take to the public” the idea of changing the City bylaws and disallow SCS in the City of Lethbridge like some other activities? No, of course not, its best to just consult knowing full well where this will lead us!

      Let me tell you the day this all becomes an outrage! That day is near. That day is when your son, your daughter, your father, your mother, your sister , your brother becomes a murdered individual because an addict needed a hit and needed the money to buy it.

      When that day arrives and its not far off. What Borgue and Manning will say is “would you have us release these addicts onto the whole city”, the same words the Vancouver “Experts” used years ago, and those same “experts” were never held accountable for amassing them in one area, as Borgue and Manning won’t be held liable either.

      Unless YOU, the population of Lethbridge grow a set now, because our “statistical murder day is approaching” and it appears you just ignore it for some reason, no idea why really.

      Remember this, the discussion is coming “saviours”…. “numbers of drug addicts saved will be offset by numbers of innocent residents murdered”

      Move the entire mess out of Lethbridge NOW, I have seen what occurs next about 30 times and I can absolutely assure you, you are not going to like it and whats more, you are going to drastically under estimate the devastation that is going to happen.

  2. Seth Anthony says:

    Move along hfield troll.

  3. Seth Anthony says:

    You don’t seem to realize that my audience isn’t you. In fact, I’m currently frying much bigger fish than you on the issue.

    • h2ofield says:

      ‘Audience’ ….*snort.

      • Seth Anthony says:

        H2 said:
        ———————-
        ‘Audience’ ….*snort.
        ———————–

        “AUDIENCE”: the readership of a book, magazine, or newspaper

        But alas, I’m used to your “nothing of value” posts. Your position is so weak, that your only defense is to mock (incorrectly at that) a particular word that I used. How pathetic.

  4. JustObserving says:

    Firstly, Both of you…,grow up.

    Seth’s initial premise is based on an assumption the SCS was designed to “help” the problem. This might have been the pablum dispensed by the Mayor and CSC dignitaries at whatever passed as a ribbon cutting, but anyone with a lick of honesty and foresight would know setting up a shooting gallery and handing out party pacs with an invitation to attend the gathering w/o risk of detention/arrest and the assurance of a free ride to the ER if things “went bad” was doomed to fail UNLESS proactive steps were taken to get the addicts to quit. Anyone being honest will also tell you that is not a mountain you can force someone to climb w/o a lot of workup and resources in place. None of this support was ready , the assumption being that the NDP money machine would crank out millions upon millions more when things got bad enough. Well, the wheels fell off that bus.
    Thankfully, the new government of this Province is taking a fresh look at the issue to see if continuing on with this ill managed project has merit.
    Personally, I don’t favour facilitating someones efforts to kill themselves. I don’t see any more merit in handing out needles and allowing addicts to shoot up than I do in yelling at someone atop the High Level Bridge to jump. I also recognize that in this day of liberal enlightenment you cannot pick someone off the street to “save them” via the intense rehab and treatment they probably need – you have wait for them to “come to terms with their disease and seek help on their own”.
    In the meantime how much professional and financial resources should you expect to see expended balancing societies “compassion ” with the addicts decision to inject or otherwise consume a substance they know may kill them ? As hard an admission as it is, sometimes you can’t help those who don’t want help and setting up a store front to assist their slow demise might not be the best way to make any inroads on the issue.

  5. Southern Albertan says:

    Perhaps, again, in the big picture, we need to look to Portugal, who “became the first country to decriminalise the possession and consumption of all illicit substances.”
    Since then, “Portugal has seen dramatic drops in overdoses, HIV infection and drug-related crime” which includes gun crime.
    “Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?”
    http://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drug-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it
    Their dramatic drop in drug-related cirme should certainly attract attention in Lethbridge…..no?
    Perhaps we need to push politics of all stripes to adopt Portugal’s ‘radical drug policy.’ It’s working…..it’s a no-brainer.

  6. Seth Anthony says:

    JO said:
    ——————————————–
    As hard an admission as it is, sometimes you can’t help those who don’t want help and setting up a store front to assist their slow demise might not be the best way to make any inroads on the issue.
    ———————————————

    You would think that would be a no brainer, but here we are.

    A little something I wrote in a different thread:

    Some may have noted that I use the term “junkie”, as well as “addict”. I typically use the term addict when describing the person that isn’t going around stealing from people, assaulting people, and actually WANTS help. I typically use the term junkie when describing the person that steals from people, assaults people, and DOESN’T WANT help. The “junkie” type of addict is a threat to society.

    The typical addict you see around Lethbridge, is the junkie type, NOT the addict type. They don’t give a shit about anyone else, and would stab you in the back to get their next high. Those are the type of addicts that are destroying Lethbridge, and hurting innocent people. They do not want help, as they have no responsibilities, and there is no consequences for their actions. In Lethbridge, these junkies are being coddled and pampered. The result is the destruction of Lethbridge and its citizens. It’s happening here, and in every other city that has a drug clubhouse.

    • Standonguard says:

      1) It is the supervised consumption site, not the safe consumption site! There is nothing safe about opiate addiction. People come to this site to use, because they are terrified that the next use may be fatal. They do not want to use, they are addicted and they do not want to die.

      2) Addiction is an illness characterized by the inability to stop consuming a chemical, drug, activity, or substance, even though it is causing psychological and physical harm.

      As any person who was, is or knows someone who is an addict can attest, addiction is the epitome of suffering unwanted illness.

      3) Supervised Consumption services at ARCHES include:
      • A medically supervised consumption room with thirteen injection booths and two supervised inhalation rooms
      • A monitoring space – after consumption, individuals are monitored for negative reactions to their drugs
      • Nursing staff that can respond to overdoses
      • Immediate access to counselling services
      • Referrals to drug treatment, detox, housing, income support, and other services

      This is all aimed at harm reduction in the face of serious medically classified illness.

      4) Bringing addicts together to one central location allows the medical/helping community to direct them into treatment facilities so they can access the help require to recover.

      Your energies would be better spent learning the facts about addictions, and helping to bring about the support and treatment these people desperately require.

      • h2ofield says:

        ^^^^looks like someone knows what actually goes on there, rather than Seth’s fabrications.

  7. JustObserving says:

    South Albertan – I have spoken to people in Holland who consider the Amsterdam experiment a colossal failure. I have also spoken to people in Portugal. particularly police officers who wholly endorse the Portugal experiment. What made the difference? My take is that, unlike the Lethbridge Experiment [ ” Step 1 – hand out goodies ; Step 2 – ????? -ask for more $ “] the Government had the foresight to sell this to the public on the basis of setting standards and measurable targets with upfront costing and all the reasonably anticipated supports in place BEFORE they took the first step. It was not a trouble free transition in all respects and where they screwed up they fessed up and fixed the problem. They also acknowledged that if they failed to meet the standards set the experiment would be ended.
    All this, however, presupposes you are prepared to accept that you will forever be supporting a segment of your population who might be otherwise productive and contributing members of your society in their decision to sit or lay about stoned out their minds on government funded and supplied drugs of all varieties . THAT , I suspect, is where the hardest aspect of any sales by any politician rests. It took the Feds from the LeDain Commission to a year ago to legalize marijuana and they have screwed that up. Do you think they have the will or public trust to start handing out heroin and the like ??
    A “no-brainer” may not trump re-election to our political set.

  8. Tris Pargeter says:

    “Southern Albertan” (why, oh why don’t you people use your own frigging names, speaking of “growing up”) is right about the big picture here. Since conservative governments have predominated in this province to a fanatical degree for so long, Alberta now offers a rare, long-term case study of the effects of the conservative philosophy that eschews investment in people, as such, and it’s not pretty.
    The NDP started the safe injection site because a growing number of people were literally dying in the streets, if you recall, and it was alarming enough to require something to be done differently, (not conservatives’ strong suit, I think we can all admit.) Hence the site.
    Its unprecedented usage has also showcased, due to chronic under-investment, the criminal paucity of other important, supportive “social” services to do with treatment, detox, and mental health. Poverty is at the heart of it all, starting with child poverty, and the fact that the NDP reduced that so dramatically is huge. But people like “Just Observing”(!!??) insist on treating them as mindless “spendthrifts” in charge of the “NDP money machine.” You conservatives are truly fanatical about money, and when you do spend it, penny wise and pound foolish. In actuality, it’s either pay now, or later, quite simply. Duh.
    Conservatives are proud and loud deniers of the highest order, insisting there isn’t a revenue problem in this province, despite MATH, and the economic practises of virtually every single other jurisdiction on the continent that levies a sales tax for stability, and there isn’t climate change either, despite SCIENCE. Mansplainers extraordinaire live here, and run in packs.
    And I keep writing this because it’s true. Cheap runs deep. And conservatives are cheap by every definition of that word. And again, there is a reason we never talk about a conservative democracy, only a liberal one. It’s the reason you right- wing types have to keep borrowing OUR language.

    • baxter says:

      The reason you keep repeating that same BS is because it is crap so you can shoehorn it into any topic you like since it has no relevancy.

      • Tris Pargeter says:

        That doesn’t make a shred of sense “baxter.”
        The reason I keep “repeating the same BS is because it is crap?”

        • baxter says:

          You keep repeating it in every topic because its equally false in any topic.

          Conservatives aren’t cheap at all in fact they are some of the richest and most philanthropic people in the world.

          What is your word? Democracy? That has nothing to do with left wing nut jobs.

    • JustObserving says:

      Ah….Tris appears to berate men and those to the right of her…which appears to be at least 65% of the population.

      The world must be a dark place when viewed through a lens where all issues are male vs female, right vs left , cheap vs spendthrift , us vs them and when one sees the solution to all problems as being solved by more taxation rather than an objective assessment of whether what millions of dollars are to be spent on actually yields the results any rational person [ and yes Tris, there are rational right wing types , some of which may be men ] would like to see come about. A question worth asking but which I have yet to hear answered is how many people with an addiction issue have quit or made substantive inroads into quitting as a result of the SCS. We hear how more and more people are coming through their doors – how more and more people are making multiple visits per day – how more and more people requiring multiple naloxone injections are revived so they can come back the next day – little of which reflects any real progress in helping the addict do anything other than prolong their addiction. To paraphrase Tris ” In actuality it’s either die now or later, quite simply.Duh.”
      I have no objection to expenditure but show me a plan that addresses the issue, of drug addiction and getting people off drugs rather than one which attempts to restructure the world as a whole [ child poverty, housing, assured income – not sure how you fit climate change in here but you raised it ]
      before you ask for a blank cheque written at the expense of the myriad of other issues which governments should be expected to address with tax dollars. The well is not bottomless..someone will have to pay the bills. At present your grandkids grandkids are on the hook. How far is enough ?

  9. baxter says:

    Great letter.

    Unfortunately the same brain dead morons that support the site will ignore the facts and keep trying to trot out their same lame responses.

    The reality is that this site has nothing to do with helping people and certainly nothing to do with improving the community. It is all about making sure we make more excuses for criminals and drug users so that a certain section of society can go home and pat themselves on the back thinking they are such great people.

    Until we actually start looking at the real problem the drug users and get them out of society we will constantly have this scum making Lethbridge a worse place for decent people.

  10. Seth Anthony says:

    Baxter said:

    ————————————
    It is all about making sure we make more excuses for criminals and drug users so that a certain section of society can go home and pat themselves on the back thinking they are such great people.
    ————————————–
    …and making a lot of money doing it. None of them however, would want the SCS anywhere near their residence, business, etc.

  11. johnny57 says:

    Would be interesting to find out how often h20field gets out and about if at all!
    You are bang right-on Seth!
    I on the other hand find myself close to to the site from time-to-time with my job and only today talked to a female postal-worker that was threatened with her life from one these addicts! She is now scared to walk anywhere near that disaster.
    As for h20field time to tune out the CBC and get “dialed-in” in whats really happening to this city of ours now!

  12. Fescue says:

    Yes, great letter. We should let these lusus naturae die on our streets.

    I suggest that we can save even more money by digging a mass grave in Galt Gardens. In no time we can convert the SCS to a seniors center for privileged white men – maybe for a state-funded curmudgeon think tank for more great money-saving ideas.

  13. Seth Anthony says:

    Yet another banal reply from Fescue.

    The usual misguided sarcasm, no refutation, and absurd accusations.

  14. Seth Anthony says:

    Why not just call these sites by their REAL and TRUTHFUL name? Instead of “safe injection site”, it should be changed to “poison injection site”. Thing is, they would have never got funding if they called themselves by their real name.

  15. biff says:

    further to the fine input from fes, might we also consider rounding up all of those that have had the audacity to get themselves addicted to drugs. so rude and brazen are they to choose addictions. the great majority do not even work. based on what i read here from most of the brilliant black and white “thinkers”, seeing as it was so easy for these do nothings to choose addiction, it should be just as easy to stop taking their big pharm synthetic opiates. therefore, those that do not stop today, and once they have used their one time only life saving ticket of naloxone, they must either be taken beyond city limits, never to return, or, they be forced to work – for 2 dollars less an hour than even youth – for those min wage cheapies to feed off. but not at full time, and not with benefits. in this day of needing multiple jobs to try and eke it out, no one should be an employee, per se, but should be considered contractors, so they do not get paid for holidays, sick days and such. herd the addicts to work each day, and herd them back to a coral where they do not get drugs after work. the way to a better world.

    • Seth Anthony says:

      @ biff

      YAWN

      More mindless sarcasm and no refutation. Those are typical characteristics when you have no substance. Just like Fescue.

  16. biff says:

    seth – your frequent yawning is a climate disaster in motion.

  17. grinandbearit says:

    SA is carrying out an emotion-based, evidence-free appeal to shut down a program that has clearly demonstrated that it has significantly enhanced the health and safety of our communities. He speaks from an impressive position of ignorance, privilege, and misrepresentation.
    First, I can see from SA’s letter that he does not even know what the acronym SCS stands for; it is not “safe” consumption, rather it is “supervised”. It is a meaningful difference. No one pretends that compulsive administration of opiates is safe. It is destructive in many, many ways, as addicts and anyone connected to the addictions field can give more than ample testimony.
    Second, having opiate addicts self-administer in a supervised setting with health professionals and social service providers on-site provides huge benefits. The general principle that is underlying the SCS and Arches is “harm reduction”. It is acknowledged that unsupervised self-administration causes personal, familial and broader social harm. The good people associated with this effort are using evidence-based practices to reduce harm. They are reducing deaths and chronic illness from unsupervised self-administration. This includes reversing otherwise lethal overdoses, preventing serious infections, and by providing on-site access to health information and treatment avenues for addicts. This reduces harm to our communities and reduces costs to our strained health care budgets. There are solid statistics on these points summarized at the end of the first year of operation of the SCS in Lethbridge. This is far more effective in reduction than blather about avoiding “poisons” and “detoxing” and fear-mongering.
    Third, the increase in crime has been documented to be occurring in Lethbridge (and many many other parts of Canada, especially where addictions are a growing problem) but it began years before the SCS opened. The increasing rate is likely NOT due to the SCS but has a relation to addictions. You will not reduce the crime rate and the harm to people and communities by having all addicts self-administer in an unsupervised setting with reduced access to health and addictions counseling. The only thing that will do is distribute the problem more broadly so that it is not as visible in one concentrated location.
    Fourth, people self-administering do not obtain their drugs from dealers in the SCS. That is a lie.
    Fifth, stopping the supervision of self-administration will not stop the need for EMS attending overdoses. Quite the contrary. Geographically concentrating overdoses and having on-site health staff capable of treating overdoses in one location is a good solution.
    Sixth, opiates are not “poison”, they are controlled drugs, approved by Health Canada for medical purposes. Used appropriately they produce great benefit. To call all drugs poisons, unsafe at any dose, is ignorant.
    Seventh, in order for a person who suffers from addiction to be successful in a program of abstinence, they need help, and most importantly they need to be alive. SCS enhances these possibilities.
    Eighth, the mind-set expressed by SA is callous and ignorant, ignoring the evidence on the ground, ignoring the benefits to health, ignoring the fact that simple “detoxing” does not establish long-term abstinence for the vast majority; this mind-set wants addicts to die alone and out of sight.

    • baxter says:

      LOL

      What a load of garbage. I will give you credit you wrote a lot of words unfortunately most of them are the same type of drivel that most apologists for the SCS continue to spout but that has zero basis in fact or reality.

      The site only provides benefits to the addicts and criminals who go there to use it. It allows them much easier ways to get and use their illegal drugs. It allows them a home base to commit their crimes, harass law abiding citizens and pass out on the streets. It also allows them to waste tax payer money by repeatedly getting medical help time and again after they overdose on their illegal drugs.

      For the actual law abiding citizens that just want to live in a nice safe cociety it does nothing but make their lives awful, increase the danger that they face daily and increase their chances of being victims of crime.

      The increase in crime is do to the fact that the center attracts criminals to it. Druggies now flock to Lethbridge and the SCS and bring with them the criminal behavior. Sure Lethbridge had crime before, mainly from these same pathetic druggies, but now it is even more as they have more time and reason to commit crimes in the area with their drug house so easily accesses and convenient for them.

      They may not get the actual drugs from the SCS but they certainly get an much easier area to do them and also can feel free to do their illegal behaviour without fear of reprecussion from the police. Anyone entering the facility should be arrested immediately and thrown into jail where they belong.

      What we would be great if the EMS could ignore these drug overdoses, especially for the repeat offenders. Let the scum die, and let people who actually pay for the services use them rather than the trash drugs users who provide nothing to our society except pain stop increasing the risk and wasting the time of the EMS services.

      The SCS does not enhance the chances of people recovering at all, they increase the likelihood of them using by making using drugs that much easier. They also work to take the stigma away from using drugs by trying to turn the users into victims, It isn’t their fault they break into cars and attack citizens it is those citizens fault for not respecting those people right to shoot up. Doing drugs is not looked at as a negative by the SCS and the scum that work there it is a positve, these drug users are heroes to them.

      The letter by SA is bang on and it is sad that people like Stacy Bourque, her minions at Arches, Mayor Chris Spearman and city council are all working so hard to make Lethbridge a much worse place to live. One of the reasons my wife and I stayed here to raise our family was because it was a safe, wonderful place for children to grow up. Unfortunately in large part due to the disgusting SCS you can’t really say that anymore and I have to educate my kids about what to do when, not if, they find a needle and explain to them why that man is sleeping right in the middle of the sidewalk. Things that they do not have deal with when they visit their grandparents in Calgary or California, which most would say are supposedly much more dangerous places.

  18. Seth Anthony says:

    @GB

    The semantics don’t make a lick of difference to my points or the public perceptions. Neither do the points raised in the rest of your reply. Also, your position that, ” The increasing rate is likely NOT due to the SCS” is simply ludicrous on many levels. I’ll get to the rest of your incorrect points and refute each one when I have more time later today. Anyway, nice try though. Do you have ANY association with AHS or SCS’s in general? Also, why aren’t you giving your real name? Why are you hiding if you think your rebuttal is so strong?

    Addicts should be given the choice for rehabilitation / recovery OR they can choose to slowly commit suicide. If they choose the suicide route, then there’s nothing we can do. If that chosen route now includes hurting innocent people, then that particular addict should be removed from society, as they have now become a threat to society. This isn’t that hard to understand.

  19. Seth Anthony says:

    @GB

    My spare time to write is intermittent and usually brief during business hours, so I’ll start with this:

    Like most sane people, my priority is the safety of my family, and everyone else for that matter. That priority includes the safety, well being, and rehabilitation of the addict (provided the addict wants help). However, when that addict begins to rob and assault innocent people, then they have CROSSED the line. At that point, the courts should give them a choice of rehab or jail. Either way, they should not be on our streets harming people.

    I can’t believe I constantly have to explain such a no brainer. The only way someone would disagree with what I’ve just said, is if they are extraordinarily stupid, or they have a vested interest (NDP supported, AHS employee, SCS employee).

    BTW GB: How would you like the SCS beside your home or business? How about you take your misguided compassion and invite one of those junkies to live in your home? Of course you’ll answer, “Hell no” to both of those questions, but you’re ok if the robbing and assaults occur to other people. You are a vested interest hypocrite.

  20. Seth Anthony says:

    @GB

    Your rebuttal reeks to the high hell of vested interest.

    I’ll begin with your preposterous statement of, “The increasing rate is likely NOT due to the SCS” “.

    Sheesh, how do I even I respond to such BS? How do I respond to something that is obvious? How do I respond to something that is a given? Well, here goes:

    The junkie will go to any length to get their next high. As I’ve said before, they’ll assault innocent people if that what it takes. They don’t give a shit about themselves, or anyone else. NOTE: I’m not referring to the addict that doesn’t rob and assault others, and actively pursues help. Those are the types of addicts that have my compassion.

    The junkies refer to the SCS as the “clubhouse”. I know this, because I’ve talked to many of them. I also know this, because due to the characteristics of what the SCS does, then it’s a GIVEN that the junkies would call it a clubhouse, or something similar.

    When the SCS opened, it had its immediate users from Lethbridge. Following that, the user amount skyrocketed due to the Blood reserve’s junkies hearing about the free for all clubhouse. So it’s a GIVEN that they would come hear and bring their shitstorm with them. That is EXACTLY why the vast majority of the junkies you see at the shelter, the SCS, shooting up and passed out in our parks / playgrounds, are native. There are hundreds of them that have come, and continue to come, to the clubhouse. In a police article a few months back, the police were describing the increase in crime, and specifically named the SCS and the hundreds of addicts/criminals that have come here because of the clubhouse.

    With that said, talk to just about any business owner or resident in the downtown area and tell them that crime hasn’t significantly increased since the SCS opened. They’ll tell you that you either must be living under a rock, or have a vested interest in down playing the crime.

  21. Seth Anthony says:

    Well that’s it for now in regards to refuting GB’s points, as the rest of GB’s points are just irrelevant, emotional responses. The position that I, and others here have taken, can be summarized with the following:

    1) The drug clubhouse has caused a massive increase in robberies, assaults, etc, on innocent people. This insanity needs to be stopped immediately.

    2) The drug clubhouse has attracted hundreds of junkies from the blood reserve (see #1).

    3) Aiding an addict to continue being an addict, is reprehensible. Granted, they recover some from an OD, but all that does is prolong the misery, crime, and inevitable death. We have to stop this idiotic notion that ALL people can be saved. In one way or another, we will all die. If an individual chooses to take that deliberate death route, then so be it. Stop letting their decision hurt innocent people.

    As I said, the rest of GB’s points are irrelevant, since they have nothing to do with those 3 points.

  22. Seth Anthony says:

    Baxter said:
    ———————————————
    What we would be great if the EMS could ignore these drug overdoses, especially for the repeat offenders.
    ———————————————

    I’ve discussed it with an EMS responder about 6 months ago. The responders are sick of it. Especially the repeat ones as you’ve said. As far as he knew, the record at the time was the same person 7 times in one day. They would revive him with whatever drug they use, then the junkie would get up, walk away, and OD again. 7 f—–g times!

  23. Seth Anthony says:

    Something else. GB began his/her rebuttal with:
    ——————————————————————
    First, I can see from SA’s letter that he does not even know what the acronym SCS stands for; it is not “safe” consumption, rather it is “supervised”
    ——————————————————————-

    GB’s point is faulty for these reasons:

    1) It assumes. Yes, I know what the acronym stands for, but in my research on the matter for the last 15 months on social media, I’ve found about half of the people say “safe”. In the desire to help elicit responses to my letter and its point, I chose to use the term “safe”. Depending on the venue, I have also used “supervised”. Then again, I have also used “stupid”.

    2) The term supervised IMPLIES the term safe.

    Furthermore, the point of GB beginning the rebuttal with a semantics argument, is a low brow attempt to try and discredit the rest of the points. It’s a typical debating tactic that is used when the opposition has no substantive rebuttal. In such a case, the opposition starts with a meaningless semantics argument, then proceeds to state outrageous claims, irrelevant points, assumptions, and Red Herrings. That’s exactly what GB did.

  24. biff says:

    gb – quite spot on.
    i will add, and perhaps be at odds, that the fake opiates are truly a poison. because they are so fully synthetic they are a fully invasive to the human system; moreover, they are far more addictive than actual opium. i continue to suggest that opium be used to replace the synthetics, which might help those with “opioid” addictions to get off that poison. opium, meanwhile, is not nearly as addictive. to reduce crime related to paying for artificially high synthetic drug prices, opium should be legalised and dispensed at the cheap price it can be produced at. even with an add on tax to cover the health costs related to the small percent of the population that are addicts, the financial cost to society should be a fraction of what we bear now. finally, along with the quality control that comes with legal drugs, there would be less overdosing, which means our health services are not anywhere near as needlessly overburdened.

    • Seth Anthony says:

      Biff said:
      ——————————
      gb – quite spot on.
      ——————————-

      LOL! Not only did I show how incorrect GB’s points were, but you say “spot on” to GB then show why GB was wrong, and I was right in calling what they inject a “poison”. WOW!

      Reading comprehension>You.

    • Tris Pargeter says:

      That’s a good idea biff.

  25. Seth Anthony says:

    Here’s a gem:

    SCS: I want to help addicts inject poison…REPEATEDLY.

    YOU: WTF? Why don’t you send them to rehab?

    SCS: Because they don’t want to go.

    YOU: If they don’t want to go to rehab, then it’s their decision, and no longer my problem. I’ll help pay for people who want to help themselves, but I’m not paying for the idiocy that you’re doing.

    SCS: Oh yes you are.

    YOU: Wait, what? If that’s what you want, then why don’t you pay for it?

    SCS: Because I’m not that stupid. So not only am I going to make you pay for it, I’m going to make a hell of a lot of money doing it. REPEATEDLY.

    YOU: WTF is happening?

  26. biff says:

    seth – you ever prove yourself more the twit, don’t you.
    the only point that i do not apparently see exactly as gb on this is as expressed. but you, so increasingly sad have you demonstrated yourself be, decide that because gb and i may be off on that one concern, i cannot read.
    once again it is you that cannot read: i wrote “gb – quite spot on.
    i will add, and perhaps be at odds, that the fake opiates are truly a poison.” using “perhaps” suggests not fully…and further note the “perhaps at odds”….

  27. Dennis Bremner says:

    The only part of the entire rant to focus on, is this para, if you prefer the coles notes version

    Let me tell you the day this all becomes an outrage. The day is when your son, your daughter, your father, your mother, your sister , your brother becomes a murdered individual because an addict needed a hit and needed the money.

    Remember this because the discussion is coming “saviours”…. “numbers of drug addicts saved will be offset by numbers of innocent residents murdered”

    https://lethbridgeherald.com/commentary/letters-to-the-editor/2019/06/12/safe-consumption-site-not-helping-the-problem/#comment-176512

    • h2ofield says:

      Bremner said “”The day is when your son, your daughter, your father, your mother, your sister , your brother becomes a murdered individual because an addict needed a hit and needed the money.

      Remember this because the discussion is coming “saviours”…. “numbers of drug addicts saved will be offset by numbers of innocent residents murdered”””

      ———————————

      At the risk of being called out ‘straw man’,…Let’s talk about the last few ‘murders’ in Lethbridge…the last one was that Mother murdered by daughter over cigarettes…nicotine perhaps the most highly addictive substance known. Before that murder, Lorne Miller (whom I knew) was run over by a hit-and-run drunk driver at 3am one Sunday morning…alcohol…another life-destroying substance..

      They have many ‘clubhouses’ (bars) throughout where they consume their poison..impair themselves get in their 2500 pound vehicle, if they make it home, beat on their wife or kids.

      Too bad we don’t focus on the REAL epidemics and society-destroyers. Instead, you’re hell bent on far less numbers and dramatic tactics.

  28. biff says:

    yes, addicts are murderers! where did we learn that? the same place we learned they all started with that evil gateway drug, marijuana? marijuana=intravenous addicts=crazed killers. heck, according to much of govt’s stupid and ignorant lying about marijuana over very many decades, one does not even need to become an intravenous addict – just a few puffs of the nefarious weed can make one a crazed killer, or worse, a communist.
    the truth, of course, well documented over the millennia, is that addiction to power and greed make crazed murderers, and liars, and bull shitters, and that keeps playing out because the public at large are a bunch of dumbass fools that need to believe everything they are told by some ‘higher” power.
    can we say brainwashed? just like the terrorists all over the place – code elevated yellow! – the ones killing everyone who dares board an airplane, simply because, as bush the psychopath creep advised everyone, they are jealous of our freedoms! LOL!. morons. and when they are not blowing up airplanes they are otherwise hiding silently in wait, perhaps under your beds, in granny’s panties drawer, or in your grocer’s freezer.
    maybe terrorists and drug addicts are one and the same? what if our addicts get organised…we cannot take that chance. round ’em up now, and string ’em up or run da bums outta town! they will kill…it is just a matter of time. come to think of it, it is already quiet out there…too quiet.

    • Tris Pargeter says:

      Hahaha! “Tis.

    • Seth Anthony says:

      When dealers and users gather and grow, the result isn’t the holding of hands while singing “Kumbaya”.

      The progression of such inevitably begins with shoplifting, then progresses to vehicle break ins, then home and business break ins, then harassment, then physical assaults on innocent people, then……

      What do you think comes next in that progression as the addicts become more desperate, and the dealers fight for claims?

      Note the exact thing is now happening in Lethbridge.

      • grinandbearit says:

        How embarrassing that shoplifting, break-ins, harassment, assaults and murders were happening at about the same rate 5 years ago. This must be some sort of backward temporal domino effect of the SCS. (And no, i do not work for TimeSlip, Inc)

        Predicting an increase in crime at this point in the escalation of the opiate crisis is breathtakingly prophetic.

        I suggest that the steady increase in crimes in Lethbridge is related to the rise in addictions (especially opiate addiction) that we have witnessed over the last decade. The SCS represents a healthy response to the same factor.

        • Seth Anthony says:

          GB,

          I’ve already, and irrefutably quelled your absurd position of, “The increasing rate is likely NOT due to the SCS”.

          It was the following:

          Sheesh, how do I even I respond to such BS? How do I respond to something that is obvious? How do I respond to something that is a given? Well, here goes:

          When the SCS opened, it had its immediate users from Lethbridge. Following that, the user amount skyrocketed due to the Blood reserve’s junkies hearing about the free for all clubhouse. So it’s a GIVEN that they would come hear and bring their shitstorm with them. That is EXACTLY why the vast majority of the junkies you see at the shelter, the SCS, shooting up and passed out in our parks / playgrounds, are native. There are hundreds of them that have come, and continue to come, to the clubhouse. In a police article a few months back, the police were describing the increase in crime, and specifically named the SCS and the hundreds of addicts/criminals that have come here because of the clubhouse. Of course, they were just stating the obvious that everyone without a vested interest already knew.

          With that said, talk to just about any business owner or resident in the downtown area and tell them that crime hasn’t significantly increased since the SCS opened. They’ll tell you that you either must be living under a rock, or have a vested interest in down playing the crime.

  29. Seth Anthony says:

    Wow. You’re truly an emotional idiot.

    I hope Clem comes back.

  30. Seth Anthony says:

    Also GB:

    You said, “I suggest that the steady increase in crimes in Lethbridge is related to the rise in addictions”.

    Thank you for stating the obvious. How far down the line do you want to go? Do you want to go into fundamental causes of crime such as poverty, abuse, biological disorders, etc? The fact is, that’s not what we’re discussing now is it? Why are trying to move the goal posts?

  31. grinandbearit says:

    SA. You did not respond to my point that you are WRONG to claim that the SCS is causing crime. Why would you imagine that i was saying anything about ” fundamental causes of crime such as poverty, abuse, biological disorders, etc”. I am saying that your claim that the SCS is the cause of a big increase in crime is not correct. The crime rate has been steadily increasing over 5 – 10 years before the SCS was open.
    Making racist comments about indigenous people and crime does not refute my point.
    Please provide the evidence that there is an increase in crime caused by the opening the SCS.

  32. Seth Anthony says:

    Gb. You said “The crime rate has been steadily increasing over 5 – 10 years before the SCS was open.”.

    Thank you again for stating the obvious. Too bad that’s not what I’m arguing. I’m arguing about the large SPIKE in crime since they opened (to which I’ve already addressed).

    Also, I fully expected you to pull out the race card. I stated a FACT about the hundreds that have come from the blood reserve because of the drug clubhouse. I made no racist comment. I just pointed out the proof of my argument. You underhandedly accused me of being a racist in order to bolster your position and discredit my integrity and motivation. That’s very pathetic of you. Now, If I didn’t state where they were coming from, then you would have lambasted me for that. It’s a no win with you.

    • grinandbearit says:

      Look above in the comments. I did not mention race, you did. Opiate addictions are problems around the world, with the same bump in criminal activities, regardless of race.

  33. Seth Anthony says:

    This too GB:

    Do you have any association with the NDP, AHS, or SCS? Also, why do you choose not to give your real name?

    Now I’m sure you’ll state that it’s “none of my business”, but I suspect I’m not the only one here that wants to know.

    • grinandbearit says:

      Lethbridge people espousing views contrary to your sort of alt right views or to conspiracy theories in the past have been harassed at home and at work. I choose not to be doxxed.

      I am not a member of any political party, nor do i have any association with AHS or the SCS. I have associations with lots of organisations: i do use a bank, shop, etc. Why do you ask?

      • baxter says:

        LOL

        Harassed at home and work.

        Doxxing people, usually for doing nothing wrong or getting the wrong person is the actions of the left. The harassment always comes from the left as they are the ones that need to make sure that everyone else believes exactly as they do and need to try and ruin the lives of people if they have a different view.

  34. Seth Anthony says:

    Alt right views and conspiracy theories? There you again with your bizarre assumptions and accusations.

    I don’t entertain the left or the right, I’m not a follower of any political party, and I haven’t presented anything that even remotely resembles a conspiracy theory. I base my positions on empirical evidence, and most importantly, objectivity.

    • grinandbearit says:

      Sorry to accuse you of being alt right if you are not. I often surmise that when someone says: “Following that, the user amount skyrocketed due to the Blood reserve’s junkies hearing about the free for all clubhouse. So it’s a GIVEN that they would come hear and bring their shitstorm with them. That is EXACTLY why the vast majority of the junkies you see at the shelter, the SCS, shooting up and passed out in our parks / playgrounds, are native.” they are likely alt right. It is possible you are just an unreflective racist, with some libertarian overtones.

  35. Seth Anthony says:

    As usual, you surmised wrong.

    Also note that you took that statement out of context. I’m not surprised though, as your original rebuttal is fundamentally apologetic, and your debate technique is underhanded and disingenuous.

    • Fescue says:

      Not a conspiracy theorist? Yet you think everyone that disagrees with you has a vested interest. This, despite the hard fact that any interest in vests went out with the last Prime Minister.

      Even if you don’t have a membership in a group, your worldview is remarkably alt-right, as grin has suggested. Otherwise you would understand that to help someone challenged by addictions, you have to keep them alive; that this takes money, despite the fact there may be other uses for it; and that Lethbridge serves a region with its amenities, including the SCS.

      “The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members” Gandhi

  36. biff says:

    was just downtown this afternoon and overheard a bunch of suspicious looking, sketchy types huddled together and whispering something about fixes, and that was just at the contracts dep’t at city hall. it can only be worse at the safe injection site.

  37. johnny57 says:

    Those poor little druggies! Can’t we put-them-up in a five star hotel or something? Maybe we can send them all off on a all expense paid vacation (tax payers of course) for some bleeding-heart therapy.
    After all they are ALL victims right!
    When they chose to put that very FIRST needle into their arm i am sure they must of done it out of some kind of duress. But we can’t hold any of them to a standard where they take responsibility for any of their actions now can we!
    UN-F..KING BELIEVABLE!

  38. Jagtech says:

    …and further, why Lethbridge?? Why not Medicine Hat, or Taber, or Fort Macleod or Standoff (closer to the majority of users). Someone here is getting their pockets lined for supporting this boondoggle. Or even better, set it up in an RV, and move it to areas that would be less impacted.
    This will ultimately be the destruction of all that was good about Lethbridge. And for what reason, … to protect a bunch of junkies that really don’t care what happens to themselves?
    Lets make this an election issue next time around! Or can we call for a plebiscite to get it removed?

  39. biff says:

    i am increasingly happy we have the injection site here. the more i read the entries of ignorant simpletons in this forum that are devoid of any depth of understanding and wickedly lacking in human heart, the more i would rather be around the addicts than you twits. jag mentions a number of places you all could relocate to. take your addictions to self and self righteousness with you.