Business owner says dialogue needed on downtown problems
By Steffanie Costigan - Lethbridge Herald Local Journalism Initiative Reporter on August 8, 2023.
Herald photo by Steffanie Costigan
Lethbridge police Sgt. Ryan Darroch checks on unhoused individuals during an early morning patrol last week through the Lethbridge downtown area.Although a motion to look into the feasibility of a fence around Galt Gardens was defeated in a vote by city council last month, opinions on the proposed fencing are still passionately being voiced.
When the official business motion was first put on the agenda of a Standing Policy Committee meeting before being delayed so council as an entirety could discuss it, many individuals expressed the reasons for their opposition to the idea. But others have come forth voicing the pros of the idea.
Hunter Heggie, owner of King of Trade, is one individual who sees positives in the fencing idea.
He shared the frustration business owners are experiencing in the downtown area and the misinterpretation people have with the idea fencing.
“We’re frustrated downtown, we’re really frustrated. There’s a lot of people protesting, ‘we need housing, not fencing,’ you know, and there’s so many people that are misinformed out there,” said Heggie.
“What they’re not understanding is we have two issues going on.”
Heggie expressed there are two groups of individuals on the streets; a group which is experiencing homelessness and a group struggling with drug addiction. He voiced his own personal experience, having lost a family member to drug addiction.
“I say this speaking as a man who lost his brother-in-law to drug addiction. My family has lived through it. It’s not without a heart that I say that. It’s not because I don’t care about the drug addicts. It’s actually the opposite.”
Heggie said he and his wife volunteer once a month at the soup kitchen and they see many new faces while there. He expressed his disappointment about the outcome of the council vote which defeated the proposal to have City administration look into the feasibility of fencing and the importance to discuss the issue further.
“I was disappointed with the vote and disappointed with people just instantly going, ‘what a terrible idea.’ The vote, the motion was to investigate this further and see if this was worthwhile to do, and what the costs would be, and a feasibility study and discussion.
“I don’t know why anybody downtown would want no more discussion about what’s going on. Maybe that idea ends up being a terrible idea. But my experience tells me when we discuss ideas, other ideas come out. Let’s discuss the issues. If we don’t discuss the issues, they’re not going to get solved.”
Heggie shared his faith and the lesson of teaching individuals ‘how to fish’ rather than continuing to give fish.
“I believe that the Savior taught people how to fish. He didn’t just give them a fish. You know, that’s the whole point of this…We got to try to get them off the streets.”
Heggie expressed the endangerment of enabling addiction rather than helping.
“We can’t enable like we’re enabling.”
He questions how this approach is helping the situation.
“Does anybody bring you a sandwich every day? Does anybody come clean up for you? Like nobody does that. Why are we doing this? Why are we treating people as if they’re three years old?… At a certain point you’re an adult now, and you can make your own sandwich.”
Heggie said he is not trying to be harsh but rather help in the battle against addiction.
He referenced Marshall Smith, former assistant to Premier Danielle Smith who also dealt with addictions issues.
“When he talks about it, he says in his experience of being a drug addict, and helping others come out of addiction, no one comes out unless they’re pushed one way or another. Maybe they find God, maybe they have a health scare.
“Maybe it’s family that they decide they need to clean up for their kids. But there’s some sort of push that needs to happen. No one just gets up in the morning and goes, ‘yep, today we’re done.’ None, they don’t do that.”
Heggie said he wants to help, however he believes in a different approach of helping than some others.
“I just believe in a different way of helping people, helping people to help themselves, and the first thing you’ve got to deal with that addiction and make it difficult to be an addict.”
He related back to the misinterpretation individuals had with the fencing proposal.
“That’s the whole thing. They just heard fence. We need housing. Why would you spend that money on fencing when you could have housing, and they’re not understanding the bigger picture of the issue.”
Heggie said he frequently hears businesses being labelled as selfish and heartless for talking about the ongoing issues they are faced with on a daily basis.
“I hear this ‘You know, the businesses you guys just complaining about that, like have a heart.’ Actually, it’s the opposite. You know, my employees have found dead bodies in the alley. Do you think that we’re tired of that? That person has a family.”
Heggie mentioned an incident which was caught on a security camera in which a woman taking a substance defecated herself and fell unconscious. Once unconscious, a man could be seen putting his hands down her pants before doing a sex act on himself. The police were notified.
“If that was my daughter ‘Oh, my hell, like she was sexually assaulted’. . . That’s just one incident that was caught on camera that is happening every night in our downtown, multiple, multiple times.
“It’s sickening. And we’re dealing with that every day. And then someone would say, ‘wow, you evil businessmen are all about making money.’ What? No. If you were seeing that in your neighborhood, you’d be like ‘we can’t tolerate that.'”
Heggie said the idea of the fencing was to shed light on the issues being faced downtown.
“The discussion of that idea brings out several other ideas that have merit. Would you say that that discussion on the fence was a waste of time? No, it wasn’t because it got us talking about the problem and how we would solve that problem.”
Heggie expressed the importance of hearing all ideas about overcoming downtown problems, and it is unreasonable to not discuss options.
“We have serious problems in our city that are getting worse. And we’re at a turning point here. Either we’re gonna go one way or the other. And in my opinion, all ideas should be on the table.
“All ideas. To just take an idea away without even considering it. Just a on a whim is silly. That doesn’t make any sense to me. I want to listen to all people’s ideas, everyone’s ideas.”
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Totally agree! Lethbridge is being led in one direction, that direction sees services buying up real estate from the Stafford to 13 street through 5th avenue in preparation for something far bigger than a “little care facility”.
It is all being done behind closed doors. There is a priviledged group of nonprofits working with the city and city council that are building a Care Campus that citizens will have no input. The intention is to get all the permits, zoning, and offers in place and then put on a dog and pony show as if it is a proposal. It is not, it is a done deal. You will be asked for your input, it will be ignored and it will voted on, passed and businesses/residents of downtown will live with the results.
To assume otherwise is naive’ and the eleventh hour approaches. It is time to call out these secret meetings and have your input. This is still ademocracy as far as I know although the way this is happening it appears not.
This city council is one of the sneakiest I have experienced. They are fooling too many people unfortunately. In some cases they are actually lying and not just being evasive.
Notice the 2 councilors who want their base to believe that Lethbridge doesn’t have an SCS. We have a mobile one, plus the OPS (overdose prevention site) in the shelter complex still exists. But if you see them being asked they always say, “No we don’t have an SCS.” I guess it isn’t an outright lie,because it is not a bricks and mortar SCS? I don’t like sneaky people and I especially don’t want them as a councilor.
Hunter, you and I have talked about this crisis and you made one important point: “But my experience tells me when we discuss ideas, other ideas come out. Let’s discuss the issues. If we don’t discuss the issues, they’re not going to get solved.”
You and I sat in your office and spoke and you were invited to a discussion regarding the issues, so we both agree on that. City leadership wanted to bury the issues and not inform people, which we both agree is the wrong way.
Downtown business and residents have varying opinions, some are driven by being brainwashed into thinking enabling addicts is saving them, which it isn’t and only allows them to continue with more money to spend on drugs, others look at BC and think that is the way to go . . . it isn’t since they have pushed their harm reduction for 20 years and it is a complete failure with numbers continuing to rise and is the best tangible evidence it doesn’t work.
Although I agree with most of what you state, the fence is a bad idea and waste of money, It would only work if backed up by law enforcement . . . why do we need a fence then? Why do we need to spend all that money building a fence when we have existing laws and bylaws already that would end issues in the park.
It has already been reported in the Herald of how a wrought iron fence was breached downtown by burrowing underneath. One thing I have observed over the years, and we see it all over Lethbridge, is they will get over, under or through fences, whether wrought iron, chain link, or wood. They tear off panels of wood, cut through chain link fences and go over-under wrought iron and if repairs are made they just make another hole. They even continuously broke into the Lethbridge Hotel before it burned.
Fencing is a bad idea! Many of us have been fully engaged in this crisis for 7 years, observing the successes and failures in other centers across North America, but no one wants to listen to us. Many keep on looking at BC which has failed tragically, killing thousands of people, yet they won’t change and continue to make excuses why it is not working and making more bad decisions.
Do we have all the answers? Of course not, but one thing I have learned is do not mimic BC! They blow federal, provincial and municipal taxpayer dollars on non-profits which only enable addicts, and very little on treatment . . . the non-profits are a billion dollar industry in BC and a large amount blown is federal tax dollars, so we are paying for their mistakes.
Let me ask this Hunter . . . where are those people going to go who are in the park constantly? Where do you think they are going to go?
They will spread out throughout downtown, in your doorways front and back, in parking areas and will only magnify the problems around the businesses and residence in the downtown core, so a fence will be counter-productive.
Fencing and revitalization all was tried in BC, including gentrification . . . all failed. Some of the pictures you saw in the last year from encampments on East Hastings in Vancouver DTES were right across from major gentrification and revitalization projects. When they put up fencing in some parks, it completely closed the park as they tried to repatriate the park, but it failed in the end because when opened up it all started again.
The ones in the park are not the truly homeless . . . the ones around your businesses all night are not the truly homeless. They are the gangs, the drug dealers, the pimps/prostitutes who are up all night committing the crimes in the area, including theft, break and enters and property damage. You will not find the truly homeless with them! We have been duped and brainwashed into believing these criminals are part of the cities most vulnerable . . . they are gang members who refused to follow any rules that could keep them housed and they demand that we allow them to continue to live rough on the streets so we do not hinder their crime activities!
We have been duped into thinking they are the truly vulnerable, while the truly homeless, such as the senior citizen living in her car, fall through the cracks and are the truly most vulnerable. She is not even getting all the supports from groups the criminals are . . . she doesn’t have groups running around all day and night bringing her sandwiches/water/pop/clothing, etc., but the criminals who hang out doing drugs all day and night do! Then they leave the garbage right where they ate and drank, in some cases right beside dumpster or garbage receptical . . . they won’t even move 2 feet to put in the garbage.
You are correct Hunter, we need to have group discussions on the issues and not bury them. People have to stand up and speak out, stating they have had enough and want this to end! You can never solve a problem until all the facts are brought forward. One issue is we have city committees that are dominated by people who are pro-harm reduction and believe enabling addicts is the only way and they crush other thoughts that could help solve the issues. I witnessed this more than once, with the Chair of more than one committee, influencing their views and ignoring other valuable input by other members on those committees. There was a facade of listening to the committee members, but there was already an agenda in place!
I and many others agree: we need to stop enabling these people, start enforcing the laws, utlilize drug courts and the Compassionate Intervention Act to get these people into ‘effective’ treatment for mental health and addiction and get these people off the streets.
We have to stop funding the non-profits who are just enabling the addicts and put that money into effective treatment programs.
Last year I calculated the per capita ratios for provinces with Safe Consumption Sites vs fatal overdoses and it showed that SCS sites increase the issues and addicts, many of who are no longer with us stated the Lethbridge SCS was bad and only made it harder to quit. It promoted and facilitated addiction!
Lethbridge costs to the crisis combined are in the tens of millions, while local tax dollars reacting to the crisis last year was over $14 million. That $14 million is only local municipal funds from your property taxes and local revenues used to only react to the crisis.
Council is not been transparent in many issues and the $662,000 playground announced after they had begun work in the park is only one example. They bring points up but never inform people that they are moving forward with projected start dates, so people have a chance to object. That money could have been used to revitilazie some of the fronts of historic buildings downtown, for example, since it could only be used for that purpose, or save the our local tax dollar portion of $300,000 and not move forward. (Beware of the reduction of lanes on 3rd avenue south for bike lanes after stating that, killing another main artery in Lethbridge!)
It was not ‘free’ money! It all came from taxpayers bank accounts!
There is a lot to discuss, but be careful of those who push for the same mistakes BC made! Harm reduction policies include removing policing! Speaking out to the news is one of the best ways to get results . . . demanding change to your local government is another way! This is our city, the taxpayers city and it is time we stopping allowing under 200 people to be the ‘tail wagging the dog’ with their non-profits who make money from the crisis dictating to government that these people are the most vulnerable and require millions in supports to enable them. We have been duped into allowing this! It is killing the addicts and not helping while taking away donor dollars from other organizations that support the rest of society. A small group has held us hostage!! It is time to say we have had enough!
We need to get back to what worked the best in the past, police having a tough stance on drugs, society having a tough stance on drugs, and more importantly getting these people into effective treatment programs.
The issue isn’t needing a fence . . . the issue is getting the criminals out of the parks and off the streets! For some jail will only solve that, but for many . . . treatment will get them the help they need!
I am not on the same page as you when it comes to the fence. I honestly think, possibly naively that Council is not on that page either.
I would like to think the concept of a fence was floated (at the wrong time based on info provided by the city) so that when this masterful unveil of the new Community Care Campus which will not be accepted by the public but will not be able to be stopped, was going to be offset by the Fence, why?
Because I think there is a plan to harbor all the tents, the addicts, etc in an area that includes Eldorado RV. So their new Galt Gardens will be behind the Kitchen Center and LeAlta Lumber and around Kissicks Eldorado.
Now the unfortunate thing about that concept is that there will have to be some sort of control (Trena Trowel (sp) calls it a compound. Which means of course that means that Dealers won’t be invited in, which of course leads to leaving the compound looking for drugs and/or money.
So as a token to the peons (citizens) we are being offered our Park back! But, few understand, the logic behind it. Why? Secret meetings, lack of public information, only a priviledged few invited.
So plan A is:
Create the disaster area in the area of Shelter to 5th North on Stafford and at the same time they assumed people would understand why they want to fence Galt Gardens and put in a play ground, they were wrong.
This, then allowed all the people who want to kill the downtown to picket the Council, while they voted on the Fence study.
So we allowed 40 people to decide what will happen to our downtown. 40 people stopped the fence which then means we lose Galt and the 19 acres along Stafford, well done do-gooders! But, in this case they are not entirely to blame because they are being kept in the dark and treated like mushrooms, just like us!
Agreed, and that is your right! I have tried to explain this to you many times but will again try. Downtown is the area of operations for the ones who hang out all night and commit crimes and sleep all day in the park and other areas of downtown. It is where they make their money!
They are all the same group who sell drugs, runs the prostitutes, steals, break and enters, damages properties, who are defecating, urinating and painting graffiti and other negative activities and building a fence will do nothing but push them into the fronts and backs of businesses and backyards of downtown residents.
This is where they operate and you will not get them out of here, no matter what you build, unless you start enforcing laws. They will not be housed where they have to follow rules and where it hampers their criminal activity! Camps/shelters outside or inside the city will not get them off the streets, nor will a fence help! This requires laws being enforced! We have had this discussion before, more than once in person!
I also noted that this Community Care Campus, 19 acres has been put on hold and it was stated in Council and can be found in the minutes of that meeting I shared with you and your group.
Streets Alive is moving there and has always wanted to get out of the downtown and buying the El Dorado property was a good decision for them. They have outgrown their building downtown and they are not building a super campus or Community Care Campus that you speak of.
Streets Alive is involved in several areas and they do great work and are not one of the non-profits I speak of when I say non-profits who have little impact in aiding in the crisis. They are not the big enablers I speak of who drain the taxpayers and have little to no impact in the crisis.
Dennis I fail to see what the fence has to do with this mythical Community Care Campus! You cannot move me to believe the two are connected in some plot!
I do support Alvin Mills camp in Standoff and I will be attending the opening ceremony for it because I do believe it will save some who can be brought back from the killing fields on our streets and saved, but it should be in their community where there is access to showers and bathrooms.
I respect your point of view, but I completely disagree with you comment.
Well we will see how it evolves, the rezoning of the shelter to include alot of services, makes one think they will move the sheltered individuals knock down the existing shelter and build bigger and better. Add to that Streets Alive a few doors over and it still ends up with everyone downtown.
In town vs downtown is a disagreement we have had since day one. I do not believe anyone has the right to kill a business, an employees job, or a residents comfort. You believe laws can stop all those issues. I disagree, it has been proven over years that police just get plain tired of the loop they are now in. So they tend to try to keep the problem in one area. That allows it to grow and organize. I do not believe for a second Police and the justice system are the answer. Why? Too many examples of the loop just including both after awhile, no matter how stringent, a new loop is established that is equally ineffective.
Agreed . . . but it would be political suicide if they bring the CCC back to the table. There are up front issues that can be fixed that we should be focused on. I will say that I see a lot of good plans coming into play from both the city and province and I do have some hope.
Hunter stating the observation of the woman who overdosed and was raped is only one example of what happens on our streets on a regular basis and we need to get things right to protect them, even though they are the ones destroying our city. Get them treated and off the streets and into the workforce . . . it can be done but we need the Crown to get it’s act together and police to act!
People do not see what many of us see happening on the streets and Hunter’s cameras capturing the event is why we need to get people engaged to the public sees what is really happening on our streets to both the businesses/residents and those we enable to slowly kill themselves.
I know you, like most of us just want it all to end! We are all battle weary! We are all tired of spending countless hours reseaching, observing, lobbying, trying to get the truth out and fighting governments with their heads stuck in the sand. Being falsely accused of being a vigilante was closest I came to suing and even spoke with lawyers in Calgary.
I have been assaulted, threatened multiple times to be killed, had property damage on our property, had my vehicle damaged from a break and enter, tried to make a marriage work with an addict that was impossible and had to walk away, walked several times down the back alleys of East Hastings in Vancouver DTES and our property gets used as a toilet almost daily, so enough is enough!
We want our city back! People are waking up across North America and they have had enough! They are going after the criminals, enforcing the laws and suing governments who failed them. This is all coming!
Lethbridge is waking up! They have had enough and it is the beginning of the end to the crisis as this happens!
We want laws enforced and we want these people treated and off our streets! Increase drug courts and stop wasting money on enabling addicts to kill themselves slowly while costing the very people that are victims, tens of millions!
Treatment saves lifes, not harm reduction! Harm reduction is a sadistic way to kill addicts: open sores, prostituting themselves, living rough while being abused, and committing crimes for drugs.
People need to be informed! Non-profits know that if people know the truth, they will lose their funding!
To add . . . I just watched a private cleaning company clean up an area between two businesses who have a wrought iron fence between the buildings and that fence has been breached multiple times and since it takes so long for the downtown city clean up to come in to clean up that mess, the company pays a privated firm to come in. The cities boasts it will send a crew, but that crew never shows up for 10-14 days, if at all.
I also observed at the same time a John with a almost completely nude woman in the alley being touched by the man, in what I would guess will soon see the attention given to him . . . also seen often in the downtown, if you are paying attention!
You can build all the fences you want . . . until you enforce the law, it will not work! Why are the police dancing around this? Is it because the Crown just kicks them back out on the street right away? We need the judicial and penal systems fixed and police back doing their jobs!
Totally agree, police are totally frustrated and are pre conditioned by the judicial system to turn a blind eye. As far as this city waking up, I see no proof of that. I did not see any Business Organizations speak up for the Hair Salon that has to keep her doors locked. Or BRZ speaking up on how they will try to defocus from the single street they promote, when people are invited downtown by a special event.
I just don’t see people standing up for each other. A CCC offers a list of specific services suggested by the SSIG. Those services can be offered by just moving those services close to the shelter. City owns the shelter building so if they want to knock it down and build a 10 story building they can. If the UCP/NDP build the 42 unit building across from the bakery on Stafford. You have coralled the area. Then it really does not matter if you call it CCC BBB or say you are not doing a CCC.
Get rid of the shelter in town, offer the services is the only thing that works, I know you disagree, but Bergen Norway did just that and it solved their problem. US Mayors have moved them to the outskirts of town then built support there, its working for them. You cannot police your way around 400-500-600 people.They can keep police hopping 24/7/365 then another loop is created.
The things you see on the streets is happening in a lot of back alley’s around downtown Lethbridge and will get worse. At what point did DTES finally become the wild west? It became the wild west once the loop was established. Then it went nuts.
Again, I will caveat all the above with I divide homeless into 3 distinct groups, addicted, mentally challenged and true homeless.
We have Fresh Start to help the mentally challenged which by the way is out of the city (Jail road). We have the ability to house all those needing housing if we take the Addicted and create a separate area for them, out of town.Loading a person on a bus back to a facility removes that person for as long as they stay intoxicated because they would not be able to bus back until sober. Its not ideal, its not even a “wonderful idea” all it is, is offering control to an out of control situation.
We have clearly shown in all the cities of Canada and the world we cannot manage these people using present day law because if it could be done, it would have been done elsewhere, long ago! No one that I am aware of benefits from this kind of city disaster, other than the addict and dealers.
So if you allow this to get out of hand, which it is now, it takes a ridiculous amount of policing to bring us back to normal. So it does not happen.If its tried you get the 40 people that stopped the “study” on fencing Galt Gardens screaming blue bloody murder. So, nothing happens.
“but Bergen Norway did just that and it solved their problem. US Mayors have moved them to the outskirts of town then built support there, its working for them.”
You cannot look at European countries and say it worked there so it will work here. The biggest issue that Europe doesn’t have is the Indigenous factor. Across Western Canada they are the biggest representation on the streets and that needs to be dealt with or they will not have any youth left . . . I haven’t seen any place in the US that have built up supports on the outskirts of town and saw the loitering, vagrancy, crime, property damage issues resolved.
Again . . . the people on the streets in downtown Lethbridge, the ones committing all the crimes and damaging property are not going to move!
This is their area of operations where they conduct their criminal acts. The pro-harm reduction activists also use Europe as an example and you cannot. Dennis you have been to more countries around the world than I have, but the ones I went to I noticed they have different values, different norms and values and different demographics. The have different discipline and it impacts how they act with and respect others. North Americans demand freedom, while not appreciating what they have and cultures are different . . . we are spoiled and what works in Europe doesn’t mean it should work here . . . there are too many factors.
What will work in Edmonton many not work here for that matter!
I know we are heading in the right direction if all the promises made are put into action, but building a fence does nothing. You need to enforce the laws and we have city bylaws and other laws that can be enforced today that will bring change. We would still have to enforce the laws if a fence is build.
At some point, if the First Nations want to have any of their youth left, they are going to have to make some very tough decisions and take some aggressive actions if they want to save their people . . . that is the other factor and why I support Alvin Mills and his project!
I wish Alvin all the best. His heart is in the right place. Does he have the support and structural skills to pull it off? Last year the city gave him a considerable amount of money,but not this year.
It seems if a whitie suggests anything like Alvin is doing,just off or near the reserve though, the orange vigilantes come out in protest against it. Go figure? As these whities want the same separation of addict and drug dealer that Alvin does.
The council has washed their hands of most of it when they voted to give the community services department the power to rezone without council having to get their hands dirty. Or rather dirtier. That was voted on within the last couple of months at what appeared to be a very poorly attended council meeting. No orange vigilantes / yes,but not in my backyard Sunset acres crowd in sight as long as it was going to be dumped by the shelter. Too bad for the near by residents and businesses there.
About 30 years ago the city moved the shelter from downtown to where it is now. They were thinking it would keep the “hard to serve” out of downtown. There has been little PUBLIC surveys/discussions or rather pretend discussions etc on this concentration of services by the shelter. The millions that they are spending and have a plan to spend will be met with the same outcome as we have seen repeated and copied from many other municipalities to further disastrous results. No staff drug testing and high staff burnout due to the dangers of the job with little to no council/city acknowledgement of these dangers add to the circus atmosphere.
I wish Alvin all the best. His heart is in the right place. Does he have the support and structural skills to pull it off? Last year the city gave him a considerable amount of money,but not this year.
It seems if a whitie suggests anything like Alvin is doing,just off or near the reserve though, the orange vigilantes come out in protest against it. Go figure? As these whities want the same separation of addict and drug dealer that Alvin does.
The council has washed their hands of most of it when they voted to give the community services department the power to rezone without council having to get their hands dirty. Or rather dirtier. That was voted on within the last couple of months at what appeared to be a very poorly attended council meeting. No orange vigilantes / yes,but not in my backyard Sunset acres crowd in sight as long as it was going to be dumped by the shelter. Too bad for the near by residents and businesses there.
About 30 years ago the city moved the shelter from downtown to where it is now. They were thinking it would keep the “hard to serve” out of downtown. There has been little PUBLIC surveys/discussions or rather pretend discussions etc on this concentration of services by the shelter. The millions that they are spending and have a plan to spend will be met with the same outcome as we have seen repeated and copied from many other municipalities to further disastrous results. No staff drug testing and high staff burnout due to the dangers of the job with little to no council/city acknowledgement of these dangers add to the circus atmosphere.
Absolutely nothing new here, just more money.