June 25th, 2024

Gov’t needs to implement vaccine passports for safety of everyone


By Lethbridge Herald on September 4, 2021.

Editor:

So here we are, approaching the two-year mark since COVID-19 began affecting our lives in an extreme way. We have ridden the ups and downs of quarantines, mask by-laws and demonstrations both for and against health protocols. 

Then came along vaccines against COVID-19 and most of us felt a sense of relief that maybe now we could get back to a more normal way of life. Not! The anti-vaxxers are determined to prolong this pandemic to the point that variants of COVID-19 are affecting even the fully vaccinated people. 

Thankfully they are not dying however, the longer we go with only a slight majority of people being vaccinated, the likelihood of a variant coming about that will overcome the vaccines. I read a comic strip the other day of a wife stating to her husband that thank God there wasn’t this type of resistance to the polio vaccines back in the 1950’s. We would still be fighting that terrible disease today! 

Governments need to mandate vaccines passports so that those people who are “sitting of the fence” in respect to getting the vaccine will get on with it. 

This is proving to work when you look at B.C., Ontario and Quebec. 

The passports come with a new set of concerns; however, those can be worked out while life gets back to normal. 

So how many more variants and infection waves do we have to endure until those people who refuse to get vaccinated because of something they read on FaceBook or Twitter get the message that we are all in this together? 

I want my life back so let’s work together to get this pandemic under control, please! 

Kent Perry

Lethbridge

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Fedup Conservative

I want to go visit my sister and brother in-law in B.C. and need proof to go there. But Kenney being the ass that he is has to make it more complicated.
Of course he doesn’t have any money to do it, he cut $9.4 billion off our corporate taxes for his rich friends.

DougCameron

It’s almost like Jason Kenney is on a mission to destroy his own career. I’m sure his party will oust him sooner than later, as these far right wing folks, always eat their young at some point in time. Here I thought it couldn’t get any worst than Allison Redford whom actually got my vote. Boy, was I wrong!

TonyPargeter

Personally, I applaud anyone who admits they were wrong. It’s rare and inspiring, a capacity we should all search for in ourselves.
And you bring up an aspect of the UCP that I have also noticed in the right wing generally, that they always go too far, maybe due to some version of “oppositional defiant disorder.” I see it as the last gasp of nonsensical libertarianism, and what we now call “toxic masculinity” but I think the head of steam they had to destroy everything that the NDP did on principle has run its course, and all the ridiculous “war rooms” in the world can’t change what’s happening with fossil fuels and our climate. This is finally recognized (albeit too late) even by the conservative- dominated world of markets and business, who have invested heavily for decades in squelching paradoxically conservative scientists’ warnings. (Six reports before they would finally say that humans “unequivocally” caused it.) So they’ve got nothing. Certainly no vision, as Trudeau aptly said of Harper years ago. It explains why they were graceless, even in victory.
But conservatives paucity of ideas and integrity, not to mention basic empathy is on full display now, and they are truly outed. Many of us are relieved beyond words.
Now if we can just rally the REAL troops. There is a climate rally here at City Hall on Wednesday at noon….

gs172

I definately agree that saying sorry I’m wrong shows character but it can get old. How many times has the PM said it? Don’t get me wrong I voted for him in his first term but he quickly showed his party was no different than the status quo. In the current federal election I have yet to see a candidate I would support. On the provincial level I hope Kenney is one and done, either by being voted out or replaced by someone more competent.

TonyPargeter

Big picture, I’d say you’re focusing way too much on individuals i.e. the cult of personality thing when you should look instead at the overall guiding philosophy of parties, which also evolves like everything else. The left wing remains people-oriented, and may have become more “bleeding heart” but we do bleed and have hearts after all.
The right wing on the other hand has lost the thread completely, cultivating the disturbing insanity of power at ANY price, even democracy itself, trashing truth which is all we really have, ultimately producing a Trump (and other copycat thugs around the world.) So that means that “conservatism” has lost every shred of credibility it once had.
One side is progressive and liberal, erring on the side of generosity toward people, the other side is NOT. Can you imagine conservatives keeping millions afloat through the pandemic? So why is that being so casually dismissed, even when we’re still IN it? Are people that blinded by the stoked hatred of Trudeau? He is Not the issue here. Is it because it’s not “fiscally responsible?” Have you not noticed that money has lost meaning lately, (we’re heading toward “trillionaires” now), and that it’s a fairly fluid concept actually, simply one of the systems devised by us that can and will change like everything else over time? But conservatives care only about the power that comes from acquisition of more and more money, capitalism, and the competitive “economy” despite actually being crappy at that too, there are bona fide statistics, another one being currently rolled out here in Alberta, along with the unfolding health care disaster…
One party is open, the other closed; it goes without saying which is which, but the closed, regressive one is obviously at odds with how life moves relentlessly forward. There’s a reason we never talk about a “conservative democracy,” only a liberal one. Not sure how you haven’t noticed that all the absolute worst “leaders” right now are ALL men of course, but also all from the right wing. And on which side of the political spectrum you can even begin to imagine the sea change that is so desperately needed that could come from simply electing more women and more “people people” as leaders?
But the fact that conservatives don’t actually even think climate change is “real” is all you REALLY need to know at this point, and that’s on top of the fact that they haven’t even really accepted the existence of homosexuality yet. Or science, period. Or feminism. They are instead the party of God, and of NO. So a vote for ANY conservative at this point; (the individual candidates are ultimately without much influence; besides, who in their right mind CHOOSES conservatism at this pivotal time, Trudeau is right about that) is quite simply a vote against humanity. They have become a ragtag band of the absolute worst among us, hands down.

Fedup Conservative

You aren’t alone she even had Peter Lougheed fooled .He was telling us she would be different. A relative who knew her well was fooled also.

Like Tony I also admire people who are man enough to admit they were wrong. These fools who make up their idiotic comments to try to prove they are a lot smarter make themselves looking really stupid.

It was former MLAs from the Lougheed era who taught me not to trust a Reformer they are nothing like the true conservatives we supported under Lougheed and Getty . Lougheed’s energy minister Bill Dickie was a brother in law of one of my uncles.

Fedup Conservative

At coffee on Friday we were talking about how the party kicked out Ralph Klein, Ed Stelmach decided not to run again because a lot of conservatives weren’t happy with him for going against the oil review board and cutting royalties even further than Klein did , and as you pointed out Redford got the boot .Reformers don’t like to see women in power was what I learned from former MLAs.
Prentice was like a spoiled brat, didn’t get what he wanted so took his ball and went home.

Dakota

You can go to the local AHS office and request a copy of your covid vaccination status for travel purposes. I have mine with me at all times when I travel. However you believing that you are such an enlightened and smart person compared to conservatives being, “idiots” and “stupid” already knew that right? Sad that you always seem to trash Kenney and or conservatives in general with each and every angry, attacking comment you write. Sorry you live such a pathetic miserable, whining life.

Last edited 2 years ago by Dakota
biff

i disagree with the type of antivaxer that is opposed to all vaxes, and who are protesting at the likes of hospitals – idiots – and who would prefer to experiment with untested substances instead of the vaxes – did i say idiots already? it is unfortunate that i, and numerous others not comfortable with these covid vaxes, are somehow on the same side of the fence with extremist fools.
that said, there are good reasons for not taking the covid vaxes. foremost among them are that the pharms selling the stuff – and they are selling, making billions in a very short span – sought and were granted absolute immunity from any liability. it makes me wonder where foolish resides. if these cos will not get behind their products, other than raking in massive fortunes from the sale of their vaxes, how do otherwise sane people get behind them? worse, they get behind them with such fervor and arrogant “all-knowingness” that they are willing to support totalitarian sanctions being heaped upon the cautious. as well, while the vaxes appear to be working for the initial strain, they appear less robust v. the mutations, leading to another concern: how many shots of the vaxes are safe for a person in the shorter term? 3, 6, 12…as many as the cos can sell? then there is another concern as to how safe will the vaxes prove in 5-10+ years. i know – you vaxed all already know so very well that the vaxes are safe in the long run – making you each more knowledgeable than pharms – did i mention they are immune to liability? – which is kudos to you for being so wise and all, at least so much wiser than the pharms that have the best immunity of anything.
moreover, i am not convinced that those without the vaxes are prolonging the pandemic: i am only wondering, as i know very little about this. is it not at all possible the virus is mutating – at a rather ridiculous rate it would seem to me – due to needing to overcome the vaxes in order to survive? further considerations come to mind: what kind of a virus is this that has mutated so often already it is like we are living a “b” movie script from the 1950s/60s horror genre – is this rather unnatural insofar as viruses go?; should not a virus over time become less of an overall risk to the masses as it mutates? i am asking because i do not know.
one thing is certain: comparing this virus to polio is apples and oranges. furthermore, the unvaxed are less the issue; the greater issue is that rights are being stepped upon, and, that too many people are accepting of the overreach by govts. we can never “get back to normal” if we deem it “normal” to take away the most fundamental right in free society: that of each being the sole arbiter of their body. is it not twisted to support disenfranchising and creating a lesser class of person because they are exercising their right to decide what goes into their body? i gather most of you are not supporters of totalitarian and autocratic govts; however, it seems many of you are ok with this approach whenever such tactics are being used to support your preferences. it is best to understand this now, rather than later when it is too late: totalitarianism and autocracy do not only pop up now and again to support your preferences in the moment; they also take root, like creeping bell flower, and undermine the grassroots of one’s rights and freedoms altogether.

Last edited 2 years ago by biff
TonyPargeter

It IS unfortunate that you’re lumped in with extremists, but take note of that fact, it tells you something, and then listen to yourself for gods’ sake! Methinks thou doth protest way too much. If you’re terrified of needles, which is valid, then why not just say that and drop all the ridiculous, uber-paranoid, and convoluted freedumb crap? How do you not grasp relative risk in life at this point?
You obviously haven’t been following the science, although you seem to accept that there is climate change. Al Beeber wrote an article recently where he pointed out that all the anti-vaxxers will head for the hospital when they need their lives saved, trusting the science THEN. I mean, come on. And mutations occur with sheer numbers of infection, which is another way the unvaccinated are THE problem here. This latest, worst one came from largely unvaccinated India.

biff

the pharms selling the stuff – and they are selling, making billions in a very short span – sought and were granted absolute immunity from any liability. it makes me wonder where foolish resides. if these cos will not get behind their products, other than raking in massive fortunes from the sale of their vaxes, how do otherwise sane people get behind them?

TonyPargeter

Litigation is rampant in the States, hence the insistence on immunity from liability. Again compare those 2600 adverse effects to 26,000 deaths. But many of those 2600 would likely sue Pfizer. Meanwhile, millions have been made relatively safe from suffocating to death, and now are also apparently less likely to suffer from long-haul covid, destructive as well (something that they think up to 20% of people will develop.)
Everyone knows how much advantage is taken by large corporations like Pfizer, but their size has also enabled them to do the necessary research AND produce at the rate needed when it was urgently needed. So we’re fortunate to have the science first and foremost, but it would be of little use without the likes of Pfizer.

John P Nightingale

Interesting concept as always.
I must point out that viruses mutate all the time, sometimes within the “species” such as COVID 19 (having jumped initially from a bat or other critter) or others that re-combine between species leading to outbreaks of the flu (H1H2 or H2N7 etc) More often than not, such mutations or re-combinations lead nowhere but occasionally a more potent (virulent) strain emerges.
Such is the case now . Fact is this virus is likely (cannot back this up) the most studied agent virally speaking, than any other and has been out under the microscope (literally) every day in every country since early 2020.
The basic concept of herd immunity has worked for smallpox, polio*, measles, rinderpest (cattle) distemper (dogs) and there is no reason to think that the current pandemic cannot be controlled in this way also. No vaccine is or likely never will be 100% but I believe that the mRNA vaccines are safe, not 100%, no medicine is and are rather efficient at lessening the spread and certainly the outcome when cases break.
It is no coincidence that (depending on the study), hospitalizations and ICU admissions are by far, populated with those non or recently vaccinated.
I too abhor government intervention but accept that as with seat belts, red-light cameras, crash helmets, smoking in public places, drink driving etc, control is necessary because people (or some people) just do not comply unless “threatened”.
Now that Kenney and his henchman Shandros have again imposed mandatory masking , it is amazing that now people are , wait for it, wearing masks inside public spaces. “Incentives” such as monetary rewards are a cynical way to get uptake and so, reluctantly , I do now favour mandated vaccine requirements for certain events. BC , Ontario and Quebec have seen vaccine uptake increase because of this.
Yes there have been demonstrations which are perfectly legal except when literally blocking hospitals and hurling obscenities at health care workers and politicians, although the latter it must be said , sometimes deserve verbal attacks!
I do not believe Biff, that the imposition of mandatory vaccine requirements for planes, certain events and mask wearing in crowded places will take root like a “creeping bell flower”. (Although I like the analogy!)
If not being vaccinated results merely in severe disease in that individual then so be it (their choice , their body) but this is not the case in this situation. We need to reach a threshold and currently we are not even close. Perhaps if the grand re-opening of Alberta back on July 1st when we had “crushed the virus” was not so rushed and initiated so soon, we would not now be having to discuss more “draconian” measures.
Ever hear Kenney, Shandros or Hinshaw come close to saying “sorry” for past events?
I do not think they did.
Meanwhile school is back with a different set of rules for every friggin’ school board. It is no wonder we lead Canada in new
cases………

Anyway, stay well and keep the mask on , who knows, we might just pass each other sometime?

*I do think that this is a case of “apples and apples” and not 🍏 and 🍊!

Last edited 2 years ago by John P Nightingale
TonyPargeter

No, they did NOT say they were sorry, or more importantly, that they were quite wrong. Kenney was as cocky as ever if somewhat defensive, claiming to be “burnt out.” But with his usual psychopathic lack of empathy, his “government” hasn’t settled with the nurses, imagining that deciding NOT to fire 700 of them should make them grateful?
What this pandemic has shown is that a depressing number of people are at best “low-information voters” shall we say, and at worst completely deranged, so clearly require sticks, or worse. There’s no helping people who are literally too stupid to live. I’d like to see more of them before the courts. And Trudeau is right that we are at a crossroads with the pandemic and climate change flushing out the utter intransigence that makes them and their “leaders” unfit to govern the rest of us.
It’s well past time for the left- leaning people who are simply more decent human beings any way you slice it, to stop commiserating with the dishonesty, the strutting ignorance, outright cruelty, and selfish arrogance shown by the right wing.

TonyPargeter

And btw, why in hell are so many of you terrified of creeping totalitarianism HERE? Especially from progressives? Obviously, it lurks and lives in the right wing where it has already started to take down democracy in the States, and elsewhere.
But you make a blanket statement that you “abhor” government intervention, even after millions have been kept afloat, and then some, by that very thing? It’s irrational enough coming from the right wing when they are obviously the potential source of it, but what is the source of this same sentiment among liberal men?

John P Nightingale

You need to read the comment in context. So many on these threads have moaned continually about mask mandates, lockdowns and vaccination passports. Demonstrations are becoming commonplace. My point in replying to Biff was that no body likes to be told what to do and used examples to illustrate such interventions and why they are necessary. The same applies to subsidies which you brought up.
Sorry you take issue with my statement. I stand by it within the context of previous threads and specifically in my response to Biff whom I respect very much but on the vaccine matter, disagree with.

biff

john, once again i can count on you to share honest and intelligent perspectives. i cannot speak for all that are not yet covid vaxed, only my own concerns. the humps for remain (in no order of importance): is my life worth the pain and misery of sentient creatures ‘experimented” upon in labs; the pharms have immunity from liability on these products; are these vaxes encouraging the numerous mutations. meanwhile, i will continue to seek info with an open mind, and do my best to protect others from any potential i have to spread the virus(es). i appreciate your position regarding govt interventions – the line can become rather fine when it comes to rights related issues. my overarching concern is that, given our legal system and constitution/rights are largely based upon precedent and interpretation of the day, my sense of things is that – ironically- freedoms and limits imposed by the courts are more often up for interpretation nowadays than before 1982, and there is an increasing narrowness with regard to defining rights and freedoms. i do not believe this was p.e trudeau’s intent, but it is the emerging reality. the basis of autocracies, meanwhile, is pretty much exactly what is happening with regard to restrictions for the unvaxed: one is “free” to choose, but how you choose determines the extent of one’s actual freedom. in the case of the current rollout of vax passports, 2 classes of people emerge: the vaxed, with all the usual freedoms of the day, and the unvaxed, whose inherent right to travel and assemble are effectively reduced. it makes me wonder, and pardon the rhetoric, whether we might see a day where there are unvaxed only washrooms, restaurants, motels, schools.
that said, your ability to share your thoughts so well is helpful to my understanding of as big a picture as possible. i will continue to factor in your perspectives on this, and all else i read from you.
thank you, stay well. and, good luck to all.

TonyPargeter

You continue to stubbornly brush aside every single science-based, reality-based, and wholly rational reply to your stated concerns that should assuage each and every one of them, and this is what puts you in the company of crazy conspiracy theorists, people that I’d think you would normally see clearly. Obviously, it’s always much easier to see something in other people than in yourself.
A common aspect of such an emotionally-charged and therefore potentially volatile stance as recalcitrant anti-vaxxers have is not just a deflection of reason, but also the warped perspective that accompanies that, in this case being a complete omission of context. When that context is a dangerous pandemic, as herd animals we are solidly placed in the domain of science, and science alone, to which we should defer accordingly, period.

biff

what you and the most vociferous and frenzied of the pro-vaxers fail to acknowledge is that these cos demanded and were granted absolute immunity with regard to their vaxes (that is a greater immunity than the vaxes give anyone short term, and an even more robust immunity for them than they can say their products will give you in the long term). one can make all the excuses for the granting of immunity that one wants, but none of those excuses makes the long term picture clear, nor anywhere near safe. at least acknowledge they demanded and got absolute immunity – how does this not upset one’s confidence at all? curious that that is not at all a red flag or near a point of concern for the loudest among the vaxed class, who now support totalitarian measures only because such measures support one’s present belief system.
there are those vaxed that are honest on this and accept they are unsure as to whether the vaxes will prove without issues in the long term. there are among these those also opposed to the creation of two classes of people, whereby the vaxed class has the full rights of the day, and the unvaxed become the new trodden upon minority of the day. perhaps we will need a “separate but equal” supreme court trial in canada. but even then, it would devolve into the usual override of rights, as the court will acknowledge the coercive vax policies are an intrusion into rights and freedoms, but will then stamp its approval with its ad nauseum invocation of sec 2 from the charter of rights and freedoms. “burp!…excuse me,” doth the court really say.
you suggest i am afraid of needles – really. hardly the intelligent ground your mind is capable of.
i have every right to oppose anything being administered to my body – and without sanction; for if that right comes with sanctions it is no longer a right, is it.
i have every right to oppose systemic and systematic cruelty to creatures, and by extension, to refuse to buy into and therefore support and perpetuate anything that derives from such practices. again, i need to be able to do so without sanction; for, if that right comes with sanctions, it is no longer a right, is it.
in the final analysis, inherent rights and freedoms are inalienable. that means there is no sec 2-ing away anything. we will need to live with some risks up to the point of where one’s rights do not infringe upon the rights of another.
if hospitals cannot treat/care for the relative handful (of the pop at large) of dire cases of unvaxed by choice covid cases, then they should not. the unvaxed should be told this clearly, so that they are fully aware of the potentials of their decisions. the unvaxed have made their bed, and so they will need to lay themselves down in that bed. that is a consequence of, and a responsibility of, free choice.
i have my very own set of reasons for not feeling confident in the vaxes, and feeling repulsed by the players, for very good reasons (big pharm and our state of politics), is a part of that set. moreover, i feel no life is worth the prolonged pain and suffering of anything that can feel pain and suffering. inflicting pain and misery and suffering on creatures with robotic regularity is gross, wicked, and unacceptable, and doing so whilst wearing a pure white lab coat does not make any of that right and no longer torture.
no amount of coercion is going to upend what my heart feels. let us accept that there are many ways to die, and so very many of those are brutal. so, if it is not covid it can be any of another of the myriad crappy ways to expire. i am not utterly brave, as i factor in that the very most are still not likely to have an awful covid experience. i also do not want to die via the worst that covid delivers. but i acknowledge i might.
i also factor in that we all go. i do my best to not be fearful of death, and just as importantly, to acknowledge that absolute fact. i factor in that our primary purpose for being here is to learn to love – unconditionally. i have a way to go in that lesson and growth. but, toward that end, i am bent on leaving this place with far more heart for all living things than i began this journey with. that is a bed i can lie down into, as difficult as it may seem if that bed is lined with the worst covid has to offer.
you nor anyone needs to agree with me, or any other, on this or anything- that is the basis of free will. and, absolutely no one, no body, has any right to override one’s right to free will. that is the universal basis upon which true inalienable rights and freedoms exist (and not at all the bogus made-in-canada-variety-of-dumbed-down-by-sec-2-‘freedoms’ we seem too often to end up with). it is why one cannot use free will as a guise for murder: any thought of doing so as being one’s right to their free will gets trumped by the right to free will of the other to continue to exist.
to the vociferous vaxed that somehow know more about each of the vaxes’s long term safety than do the-immunity-from-all-liability-cos actually making the vaxes: try to chill – you have found safe haven, you are safe from the unvaxed just as measles and polio vaxes have made those vaxed safe, not just from the unvaxed, but from those actually sick.
for the unvaxed, whatever your reasons for refusing the vaxes, keep safe distances from others, wear masks indoors in public spaces until this blows through fully, speak your points from the heart foremost and exercise common sense otherwise: please, do not demonstrate violently, and do not at all demonstrate in public at any places other than the political offices from which come our laws and public policies.

Dennis Bremner

Devils Advocate time because I play the roll so well !
I say, until Any and ALL provinces can guarantee those that CANNOT get a vaccine for medical/religious reasons is removed, then the pursuit of creating a Passport should be suspended! Until a province can ensure that in pursuit of creating 2 classes of citizen they have not unfairly treated anyone, and, have a method to correct errors at the speed of light, then Passports or whatever you want to call them, should not be created, period.

Why? You are in effect creating a No Fly list with even greater restrictions then the original! We have seen the fiasco of people with duplicate names being refused to fly! People that did not belong on the list, not being able to get off the list etc. If a Province cannot demonstrate a system can be created that can be amended on the fly, ASAP, then we should not go there!

Kenney refusing to do a Passport may be a God send because so far he has managed to screw up everything he touches, so think about that for a moment. You want Kenney to be the Head Honcho of this? How do you square that circle? You can almost guarantee that any enemy of Kenney’s will somehow not make the list! At this point that would restrict about 3 million Albertans from entering a restaurant or a pay toilet…so again, give thine head a shake!

Last edited 2 years ago by Dennis Bremner