May 21st, 2024

Biblical passages open to scholarly debate


By Lethbridge Herald on April 5, 2024.

Editor:

Once again biblical quotes are used to justify a couple of on-going debates – seemingly with no end in sight.

Favourite interpretations of biblical thought consistently refer to several (certainly not “over and over again”) passages ranging from the Hebrew bible to the New Testament, Leviticus and Romans being all time favourites.

“Interpretation“ being the operative word: A book, parts of which are over two thousand years old and translated multiple times by authors with personal biases is now used in an authoritative fashion to condemn one element of our society – the LGBTQ+2 community.

The falsehoods quoted extensively by some so called “Christians” as Ms Teerling, neglect the fact that many, if not all the passages, are open to scholarly debate by sincere Christians, who willingly acknowledge that so called references, for example the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah in reality have nothing to do with “homosexuality,”  an unknown word until the late second millennium.

The bottom line as I see it, is to ask the question: “Why would anyone “come out” in certain places knowing full well the vitriol and condemnation they certainly will receive?” The answer is simple – because that is who they are. Jesus himself would express acceptance and embrace them as he would others, actions expressing love for all humanity and not a few “chosen ones”.

The writer moves onto another debate – that of MAID – with yet another quote, this time from Jeremiah.

As one member of a protest against the practice in every respect, said to me “It is God’s will that determines “natural death””, conveniently ignoring the fact that many people over the age of say 70 would be dead or severely compromised if not for medical advances. I am unsure as to what this merciful God of Ms Teerling defines as a “natural death” in the 21st century.

I have personally known a wonderful and courageous person who lived their life to the full , but once crippled with unyielding pain despite medication, decided to end their life on their terms and with the full blessings of their family. For people such as Teerling to condemn an individuals right to choose is decidedly un-Christian for it is indeed her choice to waste away bedridden until He calls her home, but insisting that others cannot do so because of her belief, is quite simply wrong. 

(The ongoing debate about mental health and juveniles is in my opinion, important and worthy of continuing discussion.)

Ms Teerling is entitled to believe in an all powerful and (sometime) merciful God and in the explicit accuracy of ancient texts , but expecting, even demanding that others follow suit, is completely inappropriate.

John P Nightingale

Ottawa

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Sharkmeister

The problem, John, is that you are dealing with reality, common sense and intelligent logic while Ms. Teerling is using nonsensical fantasy and crazy brainwashed ideas derived from an oft-changed, 2000 year old book of make-believe.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sharkmeister
HaroldP

You get the “Gong” for that one Sharky!

lumpy

He can’t help it if he’s CORRECT.

biff

appreciate your take on this, jpn. the use of religion to undermine universal rights and to exert and power and control one over the other is antithetical to true beauty of the likes of a jesus and a beautiful creator.
btw- just took note you are now living in ottawa? perhaps you will enjoy some great music via the ottawa and montreal jazz fests, and the great blues fest in tremblant.
best wishes to you!

Last edited 1 month ago by biff
HaroldP

What “universal right(s) do you speak of?

biff

what can be termed the law of noninterference: no one has the right to prevent/coerce another with regard to conscience and their body, including how they choose to consent with others, so long as such choices/preferences do not infringe on the universal right of another. thus, people do not require the approval of religious order, a religious follower, a govt or other third party with regard to their conscience and body, so long as one does not infringe upon the rights of another.

HaroldP

That my friend, your definition of “Universal Law” is far from the true definition, and I expected as much from you! Here are the actual 12 Universal laws!

*Biff note in particular, laws #1; 5; 11.

1-Law of devine oneness
2-Law of vibration
3-Law of action
4-Law of correspondence
5-Law of cause and effect
6-Law of attraction
7-Law of compensation
8-Law of of perpetual
transmissionof energy
9-Law of relativity
10-Law of polarity
11-Law of gender
12-Law of rhythm

Last edited 1 month ago by HaroldP
biff

missing law of free will…and lose the law of gender. that regards the physical form and is hardly a law, as gender is part of this temporary form and is not universal. i expect one is mistaken to believe one’s soul is so simple so as to be ever male or female; and, i see by your entry further along you believe the creator to be male. again, that is your choice and share as you will.
again, i will say my primary point relative to the likes of those that will use religion to try and control the affairs of another: you cross the lines of another’s right to free will and to noninterference. you get to live your life the way you feel is best, and another gets to do so as they feel is best. choice is perhaps the simplest word that one may understand the meaning to be.

HaroldP

Biff, where did you get YOUR information on what the actual “Universal Laws” apart from your absolutely false one you tried to promogate?

ReallyReally

Relax Harold, biff is only trying to promulgate the use of “promogate”. Oh, wait, you are… so damn confusing all this trumpeting.

BigBrit

As always Biff, I appreciate your input and enjoyed our discussions even when we do not always agree. Overall though, we are definitely on the same track.
Chances are, we will be attending the upcoming Blues Fest this summer. There is no lack of entertainment of all kinds. – including those on Parliament Hill.
Rest assured you and the usual contributors to these columns will be treated to further inputs from moi.
Cheers for now!

biff

great to hear you are in a happy place – although a loss for lethbridge, indeed. you are insightful, a seeker, and beautiful soul. thank you for all your sharing…even when we may not agree 🙂

HaroldP

“Great minds think alike and fools seldom differ”..
. In this case, I rest on the latter!

ewingbt

Well I did see that the letter did have a massive amount of comments and I steered clear.
Unless you are a Christian who truly has the faith, which is one of the bases, many just do not understand.
The Bible has the Old Testament and the New Testament, the old covenant and the new covenant and many do not know or acknowledge the distinction between the two. The old was all about law and the new about grace and mercy, yet many still combine the two.
You could study the Bible for your whole lifespan and never completely get the whole Word!
Matthew 13:10-17 answers why Jesus spoke in parables may help you understand better, but I will say there every time I read the Bible completely each year, I am always finding new scriptures I missed prior that help me understand further.
The bases of it in simple terms:
Adam sold our rights of dominion on the earth when he sinned in the Garden of Eden, giving it to Satan, giving him power over the earth, taking it away from God. Jesus had to come to the earth as a man, in order to die, go into the pits of Hell and defeat Satan and his minions so that those in faith would now have power and dominion over the earth, above upon and below, in the name of Jesus, who now sits on the right hand side of God.
The old Testament (covenant) was all about laws and if you do this, then God will bless you. The new Testament, Jesus died for your sins, past, present and future, for sickness and disease, strife and conflict, and he gives you eternal life in Heaven.
Not much for Christians to debate! If they have questions they turn to the Word, the Bible for answers. When we fall, we repent and move on and change so we do it the right way. Christians are not perfect beings!
The Bible has come through on almost all of the prophecies, many 3,000 years ago, and we are in the very last of the last times and we are seeing the end of these prophecies being played out right now in the world and in the Middle East. Once Jerusalem once again was part of Israel (1967 war) this generation will not pass away before Christ returns. Now other doctrines have some different thoughts, but as true Christians, we do not judge them but agree to disagree. Catholic, Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, Protestant, Evangelical . . . we are all Christians and in Revelations 7 stars (churches) are mentioned as just one example. We are not to Judge one another or call them cults or sinners.
There are Theologians who study and taught the word for years, until the scales fell from their eyes and they were enlightened by the words.
I state this from your comment, and I am one who will not try to force the Word on anyone, not even my family, until God decides and prepares the way so the Word is received.
I and others who have suffered from PTSD have found peace in the Word and I do believe it will help those suffering from mental health and addiction issues, in fact a study in the US showed that addiction treatment was 86% more effective when faith based.
We are in the last of the last times and we all need to make decisions soon where we will live out eternity. I will not argue Christianity or push it on those who do not want to hear it and only make this statement as a comment to your letter.
Lastly, Christians are being persecuted world wide, and in some countries killed because of their faith . . . Google it . . . millions have been killed.
This also is part of the end of days prophesies and it has slowly grown in Canada. Canada and the US were birthed by the principles of God, with scriptures throughout Parliament buildings and the Peace Tower.
I am curious why someone in Ottawa is so involved or concerned with what transpires on our streets in our city in Alberta though, since your comments have often been made regarding issues on our streets. I would note that we are on the right track, and that you will see tangible results soon, as compared to BC, who have allowed the drug crisis to balloon, that it is out of control, and even their decriminalization and safe drug supply has failed. The have allowed a major gang and organized crime element to grow as well, magnifying the issues! Lethbridge and Alberta are on the right track!

biff

so, it all starts with 2 people created by god. and in a bout 5000 short years we get to 8 billion, right? numerous ethnicities…what colour/ethnicity are adam and eve? which of their offspring comes out with a different colour? when was it no acceptable to be incestuous? were adam and eve permitted to “know” their kids and grandkids and the like, or were just the kids allowed to “know” one another?
not to say the bible(s) are entirely lacking in thought and wisdom, but they are also quite full of nonsense. perhaps to attribute so much nonsense to god is to disrespect and even annoy said god?

HaroldP

Biff, you just don’t get it do you? The Word clearly states that the unbeliever regards the “things” of God as foolishness..
Again consider the testamony of John Newton (Amazing Grace) and also, the testament of good ol’ Nicodemus…

biff

so long as you save yourself, but please, keep out of the affairs of others. you get to live your life, and others get to live theirs.

HaroldP

Happy trails to you!

biff

and still without thoughtful response to information presented.

BigBrit

Not at all sure as to the relevance of your last paragraph. Be that as it may, this monograph is Christian Centric as if untold millions of persecutions embrace merely those who are Christian. Moslems, Hindus, Animists etc etc are also a part of persecuted individuals around the world.
Your oft repeated comments regarding “the end of times” reminds me very much of multiple preacher men who proclaimed the end of the world is nigh and when (surprise, surprise) it didn’t happen, another revelation would surface proclaiming yet another but updated date. Fact is, blaming Adam for all of Earth’s inhabitants woe begotten ways, is extraordinarily naive.

Last edited 1 month ago by BigBrit
ewingbt

I wasn’t blaming Adam, it was Satan who misled them in the Garden.
We are in the end of the end of times, many other religions agree that there is something coming soon . . . the Jews believe their Messiah will soon come as well. It is hard understand if you have not read or understand the Bible . . . your choice though!

lumpy

Thanks ewing, you come off just like ‘Church Lady’
Could it be Sa-Tan??? lol

HaroldP

No one knows the day of the Lord, and if someone proclaims one, be assured it is false.

We, as Christians are to “tarry” until that day and it will occur in the “twinkling of the eye”.

ewingbt

True, very true anyone who says they know exactly the day are false prophets . . . I understand this. I am watching the events from prophecies, the timing when Israel was again delcared a nation 29th November, 1947 by the United Nations, then 1967 when Jerusalem/Temple Mount was again part of Israel, after Israel won a 3 pronged attack by Jordan, Egypt and Syria and took back some of their ancestral lands they were Indigenous to, then the Syrian war and Russia not only in that region but in Africa, along with China . . . all prophesied . . . but this is not the platform to discuss this . . . another time when we talk openly. Maybe this Sunday or the next . . . I have been planning to come over there.
No one knows for sure, but the consensus by many across North America is that we are very close and we should all be prepared.

lumpy

“many” say we are ‘”very close”
So glad you know more than us regular folk.
Thanks for the fear-mongering!

HaroldP

The Holy Bible indeed consists of the old and new testaments…..but one devinely inspired Book. They are so incredibly complimentary to each other, while profecy in the old testament are realized in the new testament….with more revelation to come in the last days.

Last edited 1 month ago by HaroldP
biff

yes, such as eye for an eye, and turn the other cheek. in fact, the old testament and jesus are not quite eye to eye.

HaroldP

I have seen/heard some outlandish things from you before, but this one tops them all. The Lord Jesus Christ is He that was foretold in the Old Testament absolutely, and not only are the Old Testament and New Testament, “eye to eye” but more importantly, “heart to heart:.

Last edited 1 month ago by HaroldP
biff

well, i have presented the contrast twice now, here and in the other thread. please, wise one, do reconcile the old book’s eye for an eye with jesus’s turn the other cheek.

ewingbt

Agreed Harold . . . I was only stating some of the very basics in just a couple of areas. There is so much that could be said of course.

HaroldP

Well, hello again John…. opening up another segment by your instant letter does neither impress nor dismiss the previous (related) letter to the editor of Mrs. TEERLING.

You state “Once again biblical quotes are used to justify a couple of on-going debates – seemingly with no end in sight” NEWS FLASH John, there is an “end in sight” that end will be the return of Jesus Christ. True, inevitable and coming to a “theatre near you” soon! Will you, or do you have your ticket given freely through acceptance of The Lord Jesus Christ?

Regarding homosexuality, truly the individual(s) are and will be embrassed in the loving arms of Jesus, their sin (homosexuality) forgiven, just as sins of other individuals. My Lord is no respector of persons, and the call “come as you are” is embrassed by Bible believing Christians and Churches worldwide. On another note, in the previous discussions, respective of Mrs. TEERLING’s letter to the editor, the topic of “pets” arose…. A friend who studied animals and was actually a Federal Veterinarian inspecting animals as they entered Canada, checking various documents respective of health, gender and petigree, never once did he come across a gender confused or gender altered bull, heifer, horse, dog or cat…. is the lower class animal kingdom a testament to a very minute number of humans that seem to be confused with the biological gender identity?

“They were created male and female”

Last edited 1 month ago by HaroldP
BigBrit

Any veterinarian will , or should inform you that inspecting an animal from an observational point of view, as opposed to a detailed close up inspection of the genitalia, means so called “Freemartins” will be missed. Look up the definition HP.
And BTW, over 1500 animal species are known to exhibit homosexuality amongst their respective groups. This “deviant” behaviour is particularly common in Bonobos, a creature sharing almost 99% of their DNA with humans. Look it up HP.
The only “confusion” arises because of ill-informed persons questioning others because they do not fit in the mode as defined explicitly in the bible.
So are you saying that the “loving arms of Jesus” will in fact embrace and forgive the so called “sin” irrespective of their belief or non belief? Here’s me thinking you must accept Christ before you cross over to the other side.

Last edited 1 month ago by BigBrit
HaroldP

It is not you just “thinking” yes, accepting Christ is an act of your will. The sinner is charged with, “repent and sin no more”.

BigBrit

Not a clue what it is you are saying. That said, kindly answer my observations above.

biff

get out of the rights of others to live their lives as they choose – is that not simple enough for you? you only get to “stop” another if your rights are infringed upon.

HaroldP

Your previous and consistent comments in particular to Mrs. TEERLINGS letter are glaring that it is you who standing in the way of other’s rights….. our Christian values and our RIGHT to preach/state the Truth. From collective review of your statements on this subject venue along with other subject venues, it appears your elucidate is “who is Jesus”? Come on, due tell.

biff

you can have and live by whatever values you choose – that is my point. the line that may not be crossed is forcing one’s values upon another. you see being gay as sinful, fair enough. but that does not mean one gets to discriminate or hate upon or legislate against or limit the rights of a person for being gay.

SophieR

God loves all her children, HaroldP. Even bigots.

HaroldP

Very “woke” and humanistic comment Sophie… “her”???? Really?

Say What . . .

OH BOY! You do know that you are actually debating with Biff and his multiple ‘personalities’ Mr. P.
It is quite entertaining at times watching him use the aliases, sometimes, then he resorts to name-calling and wow can his mood swing.

HaroldP

I could care less who/what/why “Biff” is. The resounding comment(s) this “Biff” is by observation and his/her/its comments are those of one lost, unrepentent and unbelieving soul. All of which is very sad in my opinion.

BigBrit

Still waiting a reply from my question(s) above.

Regarding your observation of a contributor (Biff) being “lost, unrepentant and an unbelieving soul” is typical of a narrow minded “my way or the highway” outlook and who is convinced they are right in every respect , following their written instructions to the letter. Too bad if most people , mainstream Christians included , disagree with such a fundamental view point.

If someone does not “believe” in a movement ( YOUR version of Christianity), why should they “repent” ? As for being “lost” , searching and questioning is nothing of the sort. Better that then unquestioning support of a radical movement – whatever that may be and there are many in this world.

Last edited 1 month ago by BigBrit
HaroldP

BigBrit it is definetly NOT “my way or the highway” it is Jesus Christ’s way…
JESUS said “I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, no comes to the Father but through me”.

BigBrit

And my observation regarding Freemartins and Bonobos??
Nothing to add to contradict my statements – both of which are rooted in facts, not hearsay?
Check with your source regarding Freemartins in cattle and other animals. Not common, but animals with male and female genitalia exist in nature and Bonobos amongst other animals exhibit homosexual behaviour . Perhaps you are dissuaded to answer because you know are completely wrong with regard to both of these subjects , but come to think of it, sharing all but 1% of our DNA with a mere chimp whose associates practise homosexual behaviour is rather unpalatable.
Nothing more to add.

biff

hmm, if true, such beasts must be smote from god’s pure planet: surely a layer of silver lining for the cloud of every soul sending back to god these homosexual aberrations.

ReallyReally

Harold of course believes fully in “Creation”. That being so… God created a marine mollusc that has some males crawl onto the back of another male mollusc currently having sex with a female of the same species, then that second male drills a hole through the shell of the first, then it pierces the sexual organ of the first male, injects its sperm into the other’s organ… all so it can ensure that its own genetics are carried on through procreation. More or less rape, even gay sex in a dramatic form should a person wish to interpret it as such ? I am thinking then that God would not smote these other less weird beasts he created if he went so far to come up with such a creative creation as this mollusc species ?

biff

haha! perhaps, at least in the world of the blindly religious, i think all gets smote save for the pious in this forum…pious in that they may show up to church now and again, pious in judgment, pious in using religion as a basis to control another, pious in their belief that they are something extra special in god’s eye…pious, even, that they can sin away and still get to their eternal heaven just by ‘accepting” jesus and saying sorry for habitual sins.
somehow, i do not think this is a one-ff, and nor is it so simple and easy as the christians believe it to be.

biff

perhaps thoughts will come from harold, rather than regurgitation.

Last edited 1 month ago by biff
biff

well, i suppose i am lost relative to the dark ages approach to life you and ilk appear stuck to like crazy glue. still, perhaps it is best you focus your soul saving energy on another to earn your heavenly ticket.
btw – here are some more christian legacies: churches dominated by child predators; the inquisition; burning people at the stake; theft and greed; smothering truths and torture and murder with regard to those sharing provable truths that, for some reason, threatened the power of christian “leaders”, such as the earth revolving around the sun.
again, cling to what you will, and let others find their way: just refrain from using your tastes and religion to subdue the rights each to their mind and body.
meanwhile, unlike the pious posers in this forum, i have stated i am a limited being in this plane due the obvious fact that the human brain is vastly limited relative to great universe.

Last edited 1 month ago by biff
biff

again you spew on about biff and aliases – might you deal with paranoia on an ongoing basis? if so, i wish you well with healing. or, perhaps this is because you see it as too unlikely there can be more than one person that sees things different from you?
further, i rarely name call, and if enter anything that is rude or out of line in this forum i tend to retract and provide an apology.

SophieR

And even misogynists.

Dennis Bremner

You said: The falsehoods quoted extensively by some so called “Christians” as Ms Teerling, neglect the fact that many, if not all the passages, are open to scholarly debate by sincere Christians……………………………………….For people such as Teerling to condemn an individuals right to choose is decidedly un-Christian for it is indeed her choice to waste away bedridden until He calls her home, but insisting that others cannot do so because of her belief, is quite simply wrong. 
So its your interpretation that Ms Teerings interpretation is wrong. So can we assume someone else will suggest both you and Ms Teerings Interpretations are also wrong? Or perhaps someone will interpret yours is wrong and Teerings right?
So whom is the Guru? Whom interprets and is that interpretation the situation of the present day? So at what point did the “interpretation” of “look you gay @#$%^# you are cursed to fry in Hell for Eternity” changed to “lets get a piece of that” ?
Which leads me to a couple of questions. Who is the one that “Pulls a Trudeau” and stands at the podium and apologizes (with tear in eye) for something that happened 200 years ago and issues refunds? I mean should there not be a wholesale ” Hell for Eternity ” to something more than “sorry about that” by the resident Interpreter? How to you backdate “Hell for Eternity”? How do you compensate for 3rd degree burns over 100% of your body? Does Hell have a bank?
I ask because my understanding is we are up to 140ish Gender Identities and are about to create a “news Species”, so whom is the interpreter for that?
I also have to ask, as a child I was whipped senseless, weekly by nuns and church interpretation driven parents! I figure someone should be apologizing to me and I should likely get a big pay out because obviously the whole Catholic Church had a TOTALLY WRONG INTERPRETATION at the time. So do I call the pope? Does he have a 1-800 number?
I wanna die before one of you Guru’s decides that the age of consent should be lowered to 6 years old because one of you found a sub-sub-sub passage loophole in the Bible. Don’t think thats possible? Hell for Eternity” to “lets get a piece of that” in 70 years!
Some actually wonder why religion no longer plays a part in people’s lives…too many Boneheaded self centered opinionated and dictatorial Guru’s making ammendments on the fly, is just too much for most!
Pass the Basket please for the next interpreters!

Last edited 1 month ago by Dennis Bremner


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