COVID mismanagement needs to be investigated
By Lethbridge Herald on July 7, 2022.
Preston Manning
Increasing numbers of Canadians are demanding a national, independent investigation into government mismanagement of the COVID-19 outbreak.
Because governments themselves would be the subject of such an investigation, its conduct would need to be assigned to a non-governmental commission whose commissioners possess the experience, expertise and personal integrity necessary to render their findings credible with the general public.
To illustrate what such an investigation might be like, the Canadian Covid Care Alliance (CCCA) recently co-ordinated a three-day in-person and online “Citizens’ Hearing” into Canada’s response to the COVID outbreak. Some 60 people testified to a three-person panel about the effects on their personal lives of the health protection measures adopted or to offer alternative medical and scientific perspectives on which the response to the COVID outbreak might have been based.
I was one of the panellists who received this testimony. Information about the hearing is available for public scrutiny at CitizensHearing.ca.
Most of the testimony consisted of personal stories as to the impact of federal and provincial health protection measures on the personal well-being, rights, freedoms, jobs and incomes of those affected. These impacts included:
· negative effects on personal physical and mental health due to adverse reactions to social distancing, lockdowns and vaccines;
· violations of virtually every right and freedom supposedly guaranteed by the Constitution;
· negative economic impacts ranging from loss of employment and personal income to business closures and bankruptcies to supply chain disruptions.
What was most inexplicable was the absence of evidence that the governments conducted and published any in-depth assessments of the negative impacts of the health protection measures adopted on personal health, rights, freedoms, jobs, incomes and supply chains.
What was most disturbing and worrisome was testimony as to the widespread negative impacts on children of the health protection measures adopted – impacts with serious long-term developmental implications for the one group of Canadians least susceptible to the coronavirus.
What was most heart-wrenching were the stories of those who faithfully obeyed governmental instructions to be vaccinated only to suffer unpredicted adverse effects, followed by misunderstandings and denunciations when those afflicted shared their experience with others.
What was most disheartening was that the vast majority of those testifying at the Citizens’ Hearing reported receiving no reply when their concerns and questions were posed to health system officials and political decision-makers.
On the other hand, what was most inspiring was the courage displayed by so many in the face of physical and economic adversity, bureaucratic insensitivity, political arrogance and mainstream media hostility, coupled with a growing determination to ensure that lessons learned from the mismanagement of the COVID crisis are rigorously applied to the management of any future crises.
What was also encouraging was the testimony of experts offering different perspectives, interpretations, and conclusions than those that have informed or misinformed health officials and governments over the past two years:
· The expert in respiratory technologies and protections who explained the ineffectiveness of masks in halting the spread of the coronavirus.
· The critique of COVID management policies by a doctor with academic and experiential credentials superior to those of most of the public health officers currently advising the provincial and federal governments.
· The testimony of a former chief medical officer of health for Ontario as to the inadvisability of any public health policy that employs fear to motivate compliance and denies the necessity of informed consent for any medical procedure.
Hopefully, more of these Citizens’ Hearings will be held, in which ever-increasing numbers of Canadians will participate – all contributing to public demand for a national, independent investigation into government mismanagement of the COVID outbreak and measures to ensure that future crises are managed more responsibly, effectively and democratically.
Preston Manning served as a member of Parliament from 1993 to 2001 and as leader of the Opposition from 1997 to 2000. He founded two political parties: the Reform Party of Canada and the Canadian Reform Conservative Alliance. Both parties became the official Opposition in Parliament and led to the creation of the Conservative Party of Canada, which formed the federal government from 2006 to 2015. This commentary was provided by the Frontier Centre for Public Policy.
© Troy Media
22-21
Hm, makes one wonder if Preston has quietly received his 2nd booster, and/or wears the still expert-recommended mask while indoors and in large crowds. Setting fear aside, many of us just common sensically plain, don’t wish to succumb to the now more communicable B5 variant wave coming along and risk becoming a long hauler. Would it make front headlines if Preston became ill with whatever covid complication himself or would it be quietly suppressed?
Where is Mr. Manning’s concern and compassion for the 42,065 deaths in Canada from COVID so far? Or, as of July 6, 2022 a seven day average of 22 deaths from COVID?
How does Mr. Manning know that children are the least susceptible to the COVID virus?
Who is this “expert respiratory technologist”?
“… the available evidence continues to demonstrate that existing recommendations to prevent SARS-CoV-2 transmission remain effective. These include physical distancing, community use of well-fitting masks (e.g., barrier face coverings, procedure/surgical masks), adequate ventilation, and avoidance of crowded indoor spaces.”
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/sars-cov-2-transmission.html
https://covid.ri.gov/covid-19-prevention/indoor-air-circulation
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks#:~:text=Masks%20should%20be%20used%20as,as%20effective%20as%20possible.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317632#prevention
Who is this doctor with “superior credentials”? Why isn’t this person heading up a task force to contain the spread of the COVID virus?
How is wearing a mask, distancing, staying home from work when sick and getting a vaccination a form of fear based disease management?
How does the notion of democracy relate to the spread of disease? Does a virus or bacteria care about political ideology?
This is all smoke and mirrors, Mr. Manning, more resembling the cacophony of a chorus of dog whistles.
A ‘cacophinic chorus if dog whistles’ … how apt! You are an island of veracity, IMO.
I welcome this piece from Preston Manning because it opens a crack in the wall of assurances that the government is managing the pandemic well. It seems that most people in Lethbridge are unaware of how many of the governments’ policies (federal and provincial) are built on shaky evidence. You only get one side of the story from media outlets like the CBC. If you want to make sure that you are not in a giant echo chamber then a good place to start looking for counter-narrative perspectives is the website of the organization referred to by Manning: https://www.canadiancovidcarealliance.org/. You may not agree with them, but at least you ought to consider the arguments you will find there. If you don’t do that then how do you know that you have not been deceived by the culture surrounding you, together with whatever confirmation bias you’re susceptible to?
I would argue that your final statement is as applicable to you as it is to anyone else.
As you recommend, in a review of the CCCA website, it suggests the use of Ivermectin as a COVID treatment protocol. Quintessential quackery?
Moreover, the article on the CCCA website titled, What science supports the effectiveness of freedom protests against authoritarian rule and mandates?, reeks of conspiracy theory.
With the declaration of a 7th wave of COVID in Ontario and Quebec, are you, along with Preston Manning and the CCCA, suggesting that wearing a face mask in crowded indoor spaces, distancing oneself from others in indoor spaces, washing hands often, getting vaccinated and receiving booster shots is evidence of falling under the spell of authoritarianism?
The Grafton New Hampshire experience may be enlightening in this regard.
https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project
Well, yes, I am susceptible to confirmation bias. Is that the part you want to argue? Susceptible though I am, I also try to compensate for it. Do you have some suggestions for me as to how I might compensate?
“Well, yes, I am susceptible to confirmation bias.” Self awareness is a gift that must be embraced without reservation; it will repair your losses and be a blessing to you!
Thank you for the Grafton New Hampshire article. I find it to be – as you say – an enlightening illustration of how things can go wrong if you adopt a simple-minded libertarian ideology. There are indeed some problems that require collective action reinforced by wide-spread public support. I do think that we can draw an analogy between the problem of bears in that article and the problem of disease-causing viruses, though the virus problem is much more complex than the bear problem.
All the same, there is also an opposite problem: that of relying too blindly on experts to tell us what collective actions to take. Yes, in something as complex as Covid we do need to rely on experts, but if these experts are not willing to answer reasonable critics, and if they silence dissenting voices with smears and job loss, then we have descended into authoritarianism. I get it that there are some issues that are pretty difficult to explain, but if an “expert” simply says “Trust me, I’m an expert” what reason do we have to believe that they truly are an expert? That is why I welcome Preston Manning’s article. It supports citizens who question some of the government’s mandate policies. This is not asking for a free-for-all. It is asking for questions to be answered so that we can have well-managed collective action – collective action in which reasonable doubts are addressed, and in which errors made in the initial panic are corrected.
You ask whether I am “suggesting that wearing a face mask in crowded indoor spaces, distancing oneself from others in indoor spaces, washing hands often, getting vaccinated and receiving booster shots is evidence of falling under the spell of authoritarianism?” This is too many questions rolled into one for me to answer here. But in any case I am simply not enough of an expert on any of the policies to be publicly recommending for or against them. But I am saying that if the sorts of arguments and evidence presented on the CCCA site are not given fair-minded replies by the government’s chosen experts then we ought not trust those experts. And if we do trust them without some measure of skepticism then, yes, we have fallen under the spell of authoritarianism.
excellent reply, a.b
And thus ends the letter to the Libertarians in support of Pierre Poilievre from Saint Preston.
here we go again, each stuck in their corner, seemingly forever.
the most remarkable thing about the covid experience is not the very few deaths or any longstanding serious complications relative to the population at large, nor even relative to the number of those that got covid. more remarkable is witnessing how easily people bought into the idea that govt/third party gets to determine what a person must take into their body – or else! – and that govt/third party gets to trump a person’s conscience – or else.
the right to be the arbiter over one’s body and one’s conscience are together fundamental to actual freedom and liberty. moreover, as it is that we must heed the principle that one’s rights end at the rights of another, it is remarkable that the masses support the idea that the right of each may indeed extend into the body and conscience of another. that folks, is the basis of autocratic, authoritarian, fascist, totalitarian political systems.
biff: I’ve been reading your posts for some time. I admire your passion but feel the need to point out that your starting positions are legally flawed, in at least two ways. First, no right in Canada is absolute, and second, rights are not hierarchical.
In practical terms that means neither (a) your claim that the right to bodily autonomy, which I’m sure you know flows from Section 7 of the Charter, is invariant, nor (b) your position that the right to bodily autonomy trumps other rights, is legally sound.
I understand that you wish it were otherwise. You might want to reflect of this Scottish proverb: “If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.”
your reply is thoughtful, and with basis. just to clarify: i am not referencing our charter – which i am not impressed by. i am simply stating that the right to be the arbiter over one’s body and one’s conscience are together fundamental to actual freedom and liberty; and, that it is remarkable that the masses support the idea that govt/third party may indeed extend into the body and conscience of another. that folks, is the basis of autocratic, authoritarian, fascist, totalitarian political systems.
my issue with our charter is that it may well not provide a legal basis that would prevent govt/third party from entering our body or negating our conscience. if there are exceptions, then we are not the arbiter of our body and conscience.
biff: You state “the right to be the arbiter over one’s body and one’s conscience are together fundamental to actual freedom and liberty.” By that logic I should be able to drink as many beers as I can and then drive home, exercising complete autonomy over the manner in which my body moves through space. Is that really what you think?
as i note, we must heed the rights of others/ each other. using alcohol, or not, is a matter of exercising your right to your body. driving drunk is another matter, as it creates an obvious threat to the right of another (the same goes for speeding, especially in residential areas, and what otherwise would be reckless driving). not being permitted to drive drunk does not deprive the person the right to their body or to their conscience (assuming they would have one).
Earlier this year, during one of the COVID spikes, I was admitted to Emergency at the hospital with an infection at the incision site of hip-replacement surgery. I was triaged around 8:00 pm but wasn’t able to be seen by an Emergency Physician until approximately 6:30 am the next morning. The reason for the delay was described to me as “COVID-related”: The intersection of staff burnout combined with resources being directed to the COVID cases, including the ICU. A disproportionate share of those cases was unvaccinated. Fortunately, the infection was superficial and had not migrated into the joint. The antibiotics prescribed, starting with three doses administered intravenously, did the trick. I was lucky.
Obviously, a direct line cannot be drawn between you and your decision and my experience, but having a non-trivial percentage of the population refusing to be vaccinated and not taking other precautionary measures, has consequences for the health-care system generally, and those consequence have often been manifested at the level of the individual. Do not think for a minute that the decision to remain unvaccinated does not have the potential of impacting others.
your concerns will likely echo those of many.
i will do my best to provide a useful response.
whatever the potential of not vaxing may be on others will depend on several factors: it should hardly have any effect on those that vaxed, provided the vax works well enough; it may have more of an effect on the most vulnerable that chose to not vax relative to the most vulnerable that vaxed, again, provided the vax works well enough; and, as it has played out, the vast majority have been unaffected to any significant degree, save for the effects of the mandates, and especially those mandates that created two unequal classes of citizen. that said, one must have the right to take what they feel works for them, and, to not take something into their body which they do not wish to take.
as for the health system, it is what it is, and it is a different discussion. we must honestly assess just how compromised already was the system prior to covid. consider: funding/lack of it; sundry excesses (all those massive and expensive and time consuming and issue deflecting audits and commissions that amount to no real changes); costs to the system and the profit taking that sucks out wealth and resources from the system due to sundry privatisations etc.; people that have long chosen to live an unhealthy lifestyle (too little movement/exercise, maybe smoking, drinking, not eating “healthy, poverty, stress due our 24 hour society and demands), and/or those that engage in risky activities, such as various sports and recreational options; the effects on health care from pollution and toxins that are the by-products coming from industry, mining, manufacturing, internal combustion engines…our economy at large (our economy as it is is not some law of nature: it is rather unnatural and only a choice, an option…likely not even our best option).
moreover, the very idea of using our “health care system” as a means to control one’s right to their body is unacceptable. that is contrary to the idea of rights and freedoms. one’s rights must end at the rights of another; one’s idea of rights cannot be that they extend into the body of another. it is not one’s right to mandate coerce, and otherwise force a person to take anything, let alone a vaccine, a vaccine that is in fact borne of serial animal torture. forcing that stuff into another that is ethically opposed to animal torture, or into one whose spiritual beliefs may not desire vaccines or even some or any medicines, is then infringing upon the conscience of another in addition to infringing on their body.
whether everyone vaxing is “better” is a moot issue should one understand that the right to one’s body and one’s conscience must have precedence if we are to have freedom and liberty. If we create exceptions to this, then we in fact no longer have an actual right to our body and conscience. thus, i support those that wish to vax at public expense for whatever, and i support those that do not wish to vax. i further support the utter abandonment and criminalisation of animal abuse and torture. it is entirely sick, for any reason.
I’m torn. I’m not sure if you would be better at giving lessons in denialism to narcissists, or lessons in deflection to teenagers.
That said, this will be my last post. Feel free to respond, if you feel you must.
well, i felt a need to further edit my reply and did so before seeing that you had replied again. most notable is that there was a health care crisis in alberta, and in canada, long before covid. that is a fact, and i share this out further in my my now edited reply.
moreover, there is no denialism, and i further feel you sell yourself short in seeking a need to resort to insults in the failed hope of trying to elevate your opinion, rather than discussing what differences you have. please do take time to explain your concerns with what i have written, if you might be able.
biff, your claim that “whatever the potential of not vaxing may be on others will depend on several factors: it should hardly have any effect on those that vaxed” is BS!!
When I had a growth removed from beside my nose, which turned out to skin cancer, the results took longer than normal for the results. I was worried sick.
The longer wait time was mainly because of the stress on the lab system generated by the number of COVID cases — driven in large part by the unvaccinated. So, to echo the point made by the Dude (great name BTW), decisions not to be vaccinated are not without consequences for others.
BTW — I’m fully vaxed and can’t wait for dose number 4.
the state of the health care system – and i have noted some of the very many things that strain it – cannot be the basis of govt/third party forcing someone to take something they do not wish to take. the health care system cannot be used as a means of controlling people. further, the health system had already long been eroding, and had already been noted as a health care crisis.
it is nice that you look forward to your covid vaxes – you should be well protected. now, a knight in armour.
for me, it is sickening that so many people support products derived from serial animal torture. that said, i have every right to my body, and further, to my conscience. the latter i believe is protected under our otherwise woefully waffly and inept charter. and if not, then we have yet another affront to freedom.
You go on and on ad nauseam about serial animal torture/abuse as to your refusal to take a proven health related vaccine so it begs to ask are you or any family members vegans? Do you have or use any animal related products and have you used any perscription or over the counter medications and recieved treatment for any health issues like heart, stroke, diabetes and the like? Have you or even pets recieved vaccines for polio, measles, small pox, tetnus, rabies, etc etc etc? If so then you are a hypocrite. If you as you have said would rather die than to take a vaccine for said covid then I would assume you would rather die than say have angioplasty and or stents or a bypass for a heart attack or any other medical life saving procedure to save your life.
Having worked in the field of science where lab animals were used to develope protection against both bio and chemical weapons like antidotes, vaccines and protective lotions and detection instruments to protect humans/ animals, and have been on the recieving end of heart treatments I know that there is a need for such research. Unless you and your fellowers are willing to be the test subjects, but then I would think that will not happen.
lots to respond to:
wife uses pharm, i do not use anything that any longer that is derived from animal torture. all my vaxes were given to me whilst a kid, save for tetanus which i no longer update. we both look to be certain products we use are not from animal torture, but my wife will use meds that she feels she requires. i do not judge this, and we do not fight about it. she vaxed for covid, i did not. guess what – we got along very well in agreeing to allow each to determine what is best with regard to one’s body.
we are not vegan, but avoid meat sources where we are aware that animals are mistreated…such as industrial pork, meat and animal products from the usa. i would prefer to be veggie, if not entirely vegan, but that is a process. moreover, the reality that things die so things live does not escape me. i am not opposed to hunting, but do not support trapping. respectful hunting approaches for food and whatever else the creature may provide in addition to a food source is humane enough; trapping creates a prolonged agony and is inhumane. but enough about me….
i see it as entirely wrong the belief that humans are justified to torture animals so as to ameliorate and prolong our lives. this is a relatively recent practice, and it has grown exponentially over the decades. i am willing to accept that all that has come from this sordid approach remains usable…what is done is done. however, i would like it all to stop. it is gross, and makes us gross. because we are dominant does not give us the right to behave like sickos toward anything for any reason. it just makes us sickos. again, if i had my wish, serial animal torture would immediately.
however, the discussion most at hand is not serial animal torture. it is about one’s right to their body and to their morality and conscience. as such, one does not have to believe in, or always agree with, the likes of pharma, or govt, or “science”, as neither always get it correctly or are without an agenda. the idea is one gets to choose, so long as one is not acting such that the rights of another are infringed upon. that said, one’s rights stop at the body of another. govt nor any third party gets to determine what a person must or must not take, think, or believe in. where this is infringed upon one has not freedom, but the basis for autocracy, totalitarianism, fascism. kind of like being in the military, i would guess.
When a country or others are faced with a fast spreading pandemic ( and in this case an unknown pathagen) that ends up taxing the health system to the max it behoves said government/s to implement a public health response to prevent its spread. When people like yourself who refuse to abide such protocols and thus spread a pathogen to places of work/worship/home/play etc and cause further havoc to others it (government) must respond for the good of the majority by enforcing some kind of measure ie mandates for public as a whole. Kowtowing to a group like yourself for selfish reasons would be irresponsible and dangerous inlight of a pandemic. Your right does not and should not supersede others in regards to the health of others. If you or others choose not to vaccinate then you should not be allowed to infect others. If it means losing your job, ability to shop, travel, socialize etc then that is your choice. Public health trumps everything.Those who are willing to follow any and all mandates regarding health in a pandemic should be respected and said inforcement followed by the unwilling. With punishment implemented. You say you right stops at your body then fine. You isolate while we continue to conduce work/life as we follow the guidelines emposed to protect others. When you get sick from infection of any and all pandemics do not expect to jump the cue for medical treatments that could have been prevented or reduced from following the health policy.
Further note to those who claim that only 1% of the population were affected by Covid and therefore no need to to worry of a need for mandates etc. and that herd immunity is the answer to ending a pandemic. Claims made by the so called experts of the “freedom convoy” incidentally push this theory.
A fellow colleague of mine who is an expert and noted virogist whos research is renowned and accepted world wide stated that in order to achieve some small form of herd immunity you need …at minimum… 10% of the population to be infected. Much higher with Covid.
That said ..if our hospitals were massively overwhelmed at 1% infection rate how can one expect them to function at 10% (thts 10 times the amount) or more. When 90% of the patients in ICUs were unvaccinated people then biff and his cronies rational that his body is his temple shows the disregard of other peoples bodies to recieve health treatments canceled due to unvacinated morons. Selfish is one word to discribe their opposition to mandates
and so it still boils down to where we were at years ago: those that will use anything, including “health and safety”, to override the the idea that we each have final say with regard to our body and conscience. if govt or third party has any exceptions whereby it has the final say over one’s body or conscience, then the person does not actually have that right. and, welcome to china…now less entirely totalitarian (and never was it communist; that moniker was just bs from the colonial/imperial/globalist spinners so as to equate the notion of a more egalitarian society with utter govt control), but still authoritarian only now with an autocratic twist. autocracy gives the sheep a sense of freedom, because they “earn” certain degrees of controlled freedom by doing what govt commands. one can eve gain a sense of being “special”, like “good” nazis in nazi germany, because they do as the heavy hand coerces and feel that they are a step above those opposing the herd mentality. it is the authoritarian mind that loves govt control…even control that oversteps the fundamental principles and pillars of freedom and liberty.
it is ridiculous to suggest that “health and safety” can be used to override one’s right to their body and cosncience. again, always limited to where the rights of another are being respected. that said, one’s rights must never extend into the body of another. and here we are, without any big covid splash happening, and health care is still overwhelmed. it was also overwhelmed before covid – i am sure you are aware that there were delays and surgery postponements in addition to already very long wait times. it is in part the basis for the growth of private clinics in our public system. that growth was long under way before covid.
moreover, the system has long been failing: please note the numerous commissions and auditor reports that have pointed to the sundry concerns, and of course never acted on by govts.
what remains a sad statement on people, besides their acceptance that they do not really own their body and conscience, is their belief that they are so above all else that their “health” is enough to justify serial animal torture. you, nor govt, nor any third party, gets to force that on anyone. i see serial animal torture for any reason, and the belief that govt actually owns one’s body and conscience, as appalling and wicked affronts to decency and liberty – neither has a place in a free, respectful and just society.
What utter bs you push with words. When a pandemic hits a area/ country with a potentialy devestation effect with the speed Covid did and with an unknown means to counter it, it would be irresponsible for a government to do nothing to protect its population. The medical system being strained as it was as you said was pushed to collapse. Time lines for other medical procedures were sometimes longer normaly due to insufficient funding etc. but a lot were canceled or further delayed due to the shifting of staff to deal with the pandemic…several family members are in this field and state it was made worse by covid and seveal family members also had procedures canceled/ delayed. And a few friends/ family died. So your coments about medical system being deplorible other than from covid is BS. The fact that 90% of the patients in ICU were of unvaxed morons is fact and not fiction as you and you fellow believers like to believe. Two sisters and a niece would beg to differ with you as one had to transfer to another center because she was about to burn out from seeing people die from this virus under her care.
Any, and I do mean ANY government would be made by its people to do something to prevent a pandemic from destroying its population, yet when all and done it is always people like yourself that will buck the system for their own selfish aims and decry “freedom, communism, authortarian, nazis, and of course your pathetic claim of animal cruelty in their obtuse rhetoric and BS. And wave their big Canadian flags like they are the only ones to be considered patriotic.
you just go on trying to rationalise authoritarianism, autocracy, fascism…quite understandable given you are military. you have your tastes and opinions, i have mine.
“pathetic” claim of animal cruelty? is this really your heart and empathy? talk about selfish, but let me add hubris and disgusting to the idea that humans get to torture creatures for their own gain.
let me note as well how pathetic it is that people believe govt gets to have final say over one’s body.
Being in the military has nothing to do with it. Knowing the difference between rain and someone pissing in the wind like the bull crap you sling is understanding logic and facts. Like I said if you don’t like the government mandates and their attempt to control a pandemic spread dispite individuals like yourself then isolate. Morons who chose to spead a pathagen without regard of others is pathetic and even criminal. It may be your right to not vaccinate but it is not your right to spread said pathagen to others as risk. Your so called “freedom” stops at your dooorstep.
btw – do you think covid undermines the health of society and strains the health system more than poverty? not even close. so, when people stand up for a more egalitarian society, to uplift the far too many working poor, i do hope, please, that you and the other authoritarian autocrats that cry “health and safety” also stand up for this. otherwise, looks like we have an awful lot of hypocrites in the authoritarian and autocracy camp.
how about you isolate if you are so concerned? how about you take your vax, which is your choice, and keep out of the body of another? are you feeling the vax does not work?
As to your hypocritical coment, …..when you stop eating meat in all its form regardless if it comes from the US ( laughable) or from Canada and stop condoning hunting ( what about the wounded amimals pain when they are not killed and die from torturous pain) then and only then can your pathetic defence about your body and animal torture will be believed as plausable. You just spread more BS like you do the virus. LOL
you are so authoritarian you can no longer see reason on these issues. you choose to not see a difference between a humane kill and ongoing torture. as for differentiating between cdn and usa approaches to meat farming, go and educate yourself. there are, or used to be, a lot of videos that exposed the usa ultra cruel practices. but then came the gag laws, which made it illegal to video and show the cruelty, so as to protect the perpetrators of the cruelty.
in closing on this, i wish you enlightenment and warmer hearts.
LOL what a joke you are biff. A total hypocrite as well. Do not need to watch a video to educate myself. LOL keep believing your own BS. Give your head a shake because your eyeballs are stuck…or is it the blinders attached to them. LOL typical armchair net surfing response.
are you disputing that the usa is notorious for its exceptional cruelty toward its livestock? are you disputing that almost all if not all states have enacted gag laws to prevent the abuses from being filmed and aired? are you disputing that pharma does not make sentient creatures feel pain and then death in order to create its wares? are you truly favouring that govt has the ultimate control over the bodies of people?
it is most amusing to read your entries as they fall way down into the depths of insult and personal attack, rather than to discuss the points presented. seems like the soldier in support of animal cruelty and big brother society has run out of ammo.
Again you push more bs as you reply along with hyprocracy. Whats to say Canada is any different to the US. I have visited Canadian industrial farms and both beef abattoirs and poultry and could find disturbing things as well that I’m sure animal finatics would protest, so to say it is only “made in the USA” is pure BS. I was in Abbotsford BC assisting in the evaluation and detection of an avian bird flu outbreak and watched the termination of over a million birds to eradicate the spread of the virus. So unlike you I had first hand view of a large scale poultry farm.
I also had to witness a few “terminations” of wounded wild life while working on the Suffield block where they ended up after being shot off base by hunters so your pathetic comment about animal cruelty and okay to hunting is as said pathttttic.
As to your claim of animal use for as you say “pharma”.you may have legit claims if it were for things like cosmetics and the like but if is for research of life saving medications, vaccines, or procedures (ie heart, cancer etc.) then it would be hypocritical if you have or had any type of medical aid and would accept such aid in the future.
Your claim that the goverment has no right over the bodies of people you give more Selfish BS. The goverment does not force you to take a vaccine but it does have the right to mitigate/control the spread of a pathogenic virrus like covid and the public would expect/demand it. If you and your likeminded selfish cronies do not like to follow the rules laid down to the masses then fine it is your right but it is not your right to infect the majority who do. Isolate.
Your rants are hardly amusing and your shots are planks. Thank god your the fringe.
I don’t know your background, education level or field of work but I would assume it is just surfing the internet and mostly right wing websights and such and are just another armchair protester who lacks any real knowledge beyond your computer screen. Those who think they know everything tend to piss off those who do.🤫